What Jeremy Hill and Joan Broadbeck keep in their car "boot" as they travel for their lessons

Have you ever had one of those times where you pull up to a lesson. You get out. You think you have everything under control and then you forgot the most important material? Yeah, you have. We all have. And you have enough experiences like that over many, many years. You start to really figure out what works and what doesn't work for your learners and what they need on a continual basis for you to keep in your car trunk, or as Aussies call it, your car boot. Today we're talking with Joan Brodbeck and Jeremy Hill, and they're going to be sharing with us what they keep in their cars as they travel around rural Kansas, and all around Australia for their lesson. So just let's dive in. Come on in.

In this podcast episode:

• Who is Jeremy Hill and Joan Broadbeck?

• The origin of car “boot”

• Things Jeremy and Joan carry around

• Challenges of being itinerant and sustainable

• Challenges faced that made you choose one of the items chosen to be brought around

Transcript of the Episode:

Kassy:
Welcome back to the podcast! Podcast episode 111. If you are woo-woo like me, you have to make a wish. But we don't really need any wishes today because today's episode is absolutely amazing. I just got off the call with Joan and Jeremy who are going to be sharing some really awesome stories and basically telling you the why behind what they're going to be sharing at the webinar on November 11. And then at the very end, we'll tell you how you can sign up for your fall webinar with Allied Independence. This is our way of connecting with you, of giving to youm pouring into you and saying thank you. We appreciate you as our community. You are the people doing the work and making such an impact and we appreciate you so much.

Joan has been TSVI for eight years and a comms for five years and Kelly County, Kansas. She has spent many summers at the Kansas State School for the Blind in the ESI programme. She got her teaching degree from Fort Hays State University and her master's degree in Special Education low incidence from Texas Tech University. She currently serves six communities and Kelly County as an itinerant provider and she has four daughters and has been tackling life with her husband David for 11 years.

Jeremy Hill works for guide dogs Queensland, Australia and is the Allied Health Manager for services across the large state of Queensland. He's been an O and M specialist for over 32 years and two years ago acquired his Comms certification. His interests are management of services in rural and remote areas, neurological visual impairment and cortical visual impairment and children. Jeremy is the immediate past president of the orientation and mobility association of Australasia and he's keen to promote the O and M Symposium across his part of the world which he always does. Jeremy's vision is that all people with visual impairment across the world not only hear about the great work of O and Ms that we can provide, but are also able to access such services.

This episode is definitely one of my favorites, you have to take a listen and definitely join us for the webinar on November 10 at 8pm, Eastern. You can sign up at Allied independence online.com forward slash training. Alright friends, let's just take it to the show. 

Who is Jeremy Hill and Joan Broadbeck?

Kassy:
Welcome Jeremy and Joan, I'm so glad that you guys are on the podcast. You've been on this podcast before, each of you separately. But today we're here together and I'm so excited about all the funny stories that you guys have to share and all of the things that we are learning as we go along this journey of being more organised with all of the things that we keep for our orientation and mobility lessons. First and foremost for those of you guys who don't know Jeremy and Joan, I'm gonna have them introduce themselves. Jeremy, would you like to start?

Jeremy:
Certainly, my name is Jeremy Hill and I'd been on your committee for a few years now, organising the seminars and absolutely love it. I live in Brisbane in Australia. It's a lovely sunny day here at the moment and I've been in O and M about 35 years in different states around Australia, and absolutely love it. It's the best job in the world.

Kassy:
You're also a manager of O and M specialists or have that experience, right?

Jeremy:
Sure, I work as an Allied Health Manager, but I've always thought it's important in any role, I have to make sure I have a practical part of my job while I still work with clients. And that's, that's really good. It keeps me motivated. And it means I can communicate with staff around me who are doing the same sort of roles. So absolutely enjoy sharing the two roles.

Kassy:
Yeah, I love learning from you, and how you're even helping universities to train their personnel too. We have so much to learn from you. And I love the way that you bring… You bring light to things that could be seen as so frustrating. And that's one of the reasons why we just absolutely love working with you. So welcome welcome, friend.

Jeremy:
Thank you very much.

Kassy:
Joan, lovely, lovely Joan, who is so instrumental in this community in so many different ways. Would you like to share a little bit about yourself?

Joan:
I'm from Kansas. Rural Kansas and the United States. I serve six districts in side one Co Op, which ultimately is one county inside the state of Kansas. I've been a Comms for six years, and a TSVI for 10 lots. I think Comms is more fun than than TSVI sometimes.

Kassy:
I don't know necessarily because I never transferred my TSVI certificate from Florida to Texas, mostly because I was like, Oh, this is a fantastic full time job as an O and M specialist.The full time O and M specialists, I totally do that. It's a lot… It's a lot of moving. A lot of moving around. But Joan is also one of our clarity experts and has provided so much expertise in that area. So if you guys are in Clarity, and you probably know of Joan, from our workshops, and offering her tidbits of expertise and lesson plans as well.

Alright guys, so let's just dive into it. We're hosting a webinar on November 10, at 8pm, Eastern Standard Time, for everybody around the world, you can go to timeanddate.com and figure out what time it is for you because it's different days and times for everybody.

Jeremy:
I think that’s the hardest part is working out where we are in time. Yeah.

The origin of car “boot”

Kassy:
Always, always. And I still get it wrong all the time. It's really in the United States that I get it the most wrong, which is the worst. But we're going to be talking about organisation and what Joan and Jeremy keep in their cars because they're itinerant. But as we were talking about this in our planning committee meeting, Jeremy brought up an idea and we all kind of laughed, and I think I'm just gonna turn it over to you Jeremy about what your idea was. And then the definitions behind it all because we all use different words.

Jeremy:
We all had a bit of a giggle and saliva backwards because we were… I was talking about the things… now you're gonna laugh already that I keep in the boot of my car. And then everyone's… you could see several puzzled faces, What on earth is Jeremy talking about? And then I said, Oh, that's trunk in America. Then there's different other words, but I wondered… I actually walked away from that meeting thinking it is strange, isn't it? Where does all of these words come from?

And it goes back to the days of stage coaches and carriages. When the guy on the top you know the guy with the whip and he's hanging on to the reins, and I imagine those western movies now for those who your friends who live in Western countries. This guy would sit on the top of the carriage and he'd sit on top of a like a suitcase, a big leather suitcase. And inside that suitcase, he would keep his clothes his you know, his coach, his spare coat and also maybe a pair of spare boots. So he keeps his boots in his case and eventually got caught at boot case and then he got shown just a straight old boot. And then as cars and carriage had gone on anything you kept in the spare parts compartment of the carriage or eventually cars that we have engaged in the word car is short for horseless carriage is called a boot. Then also, when you started bringing out cars and there was no room to put everything in. You would then have a trunk like the big leather trunk which would strap on the back of the car. And eventually cars became what in America called trunk. And this will make you laugh in places in England. They used to pull that back boot out or trunk and it would open out and inside was a spare seat. We used to call it sometimes the mother-in -law seat because it was outside the car. And it was also it was also called in England dickey seats, and so they sometimes call their booth a dickey So in Australia, we have boots. Yeah.

Kassy:
Yes. But you want to know what in America and this doesn't go with organisation but in America if you say that there's a car boot, there's a boot on my car it means that a company has come and put a thing on your tire to make your car immobilise.

Jeremy:
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we have clamped. We have clamped.

Kassy:
Yes. And it's a clamp. It’s like super heavy, and then you can't move your car. It's called a car boot. It's typically before it gets taken away from you for some reason.

Jeremy:
Wow, that's complex, isn't it?

Kassy:
It's so funny how we use different words all around the world. And yet, there's still so many similarities between our jobs like orientation mobility around the world is done differently. A little bit. But we follow the same standards, especially if your ACVREP certified or just like following along with those standards. But both of you guys are very itinerant, like, the most itinerant that I am is I'm in you know, maybe just a variety of different counties. And I have different schools and school districts because they are charter schools. But for you, Jeremy, like you leave your house, and then you have to go to a hotel, and stay the night or several nights there. And so for you, organisation is so paramount, so key, because there is no you know, I'll just bring it next week, or you know, I forgot it, it's not that big of a deal. It is a big deal. forget something.

And Joan, you're also very rural being in Kansas, and you travel really far as well. And you have so many different districts that you work with, and they operate so differently. I think it's really interesting how all around the world we’re all facing kind of the same challenges. You know what I mean?

Things Jeremy and Joan carry around

Jeremy:
Very true. And I know it myself now I used to be all travelling around in the car. And it did, right because if you go… some people you'd only see once a month. And if I forget some vital piece of thing, firstly, they'll remember it. Say where is that item? Aw should have had that. At least for the car boots, or trunk, you can throw everything in there you might possibly need. And the…. now it's changed where I fly to a lot of regional places, by plane and you can only course carry so much in a suitcase. So now I have a suitcase, you really got to think about this what I thought today, what are my I first favourite five things because he really got to narrow it down to things which are light, compact. You can't take every single cane in the world because it was too heavy. So you try and take a few of the most common canes and then say One day, I'll send you the right size cane, couple of tips. So it's the most common stuff really just to give people an idea of what to learn and what we can do next session. So when you're flying a plane, it's big story big different.

Kassy:
Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit? Since you you've already started shipping? Yeah, how you just still, what things do you carry? We won't go into too many of them, but maybe just a few to give us a little taste of what we might get on the webinar.

Jeremy:
Sure one of my… I think one of my favorite kits. And it's nice and lightweight, what I call sports markers. They're just little plastic markers. And they're a circle, and you use them when you're playing hockey or soccer and that sort of thing. And they have different colours. And as you know, most of our clients have got a little bit of vision. So I use the I get to look at something in the distance I could tree or something that they can see. And then I use the sports markers to mark out their field of view on the field. And their family find it really interesting. So do they just to get an idea of how wide their vision is, and actually what they can see and also how far they have to turn their head from side to side. Because if you look at a field chart, and you and I can have an understanding of how it works, you map out some field with some markers all over a field, and they get an instant idea. Wow, it's pretty tiny. Or I can actually make that bigger by turning and using functional skills. So there's things you can throw in your car which are invaluable and just really help you with the day to day job.

What's Joan’s favorite?

Joan:
Oh, I was looking through it. I've got about five or so things that I usually carry. I have an organiser that used to carry groceries. It can fold up very quickly. But it's really helpful because I can just pull it right out of the car. And if I have to get to the spare tire or anything like that, I have canes and tips, but most of my canes fold and I carry the Ambia tech. I call it a buddy bar. It connects one cane to another so that I can see when a student is sleeping or when they're not sleeping and remind them that they need to be sleeping. I carry yoga mats, little small ones that connect like puzzle pieces so that my youngest students get a chance to try those activities. Extra visors, blindfolds and sunscreen, because it's hot out here at the beginning and the end of the year, and there's always a glare. And nobody remembers their hat. I don't know why.

Challenges of being itinerant and sustainable

Kassy:
I love that all those things are such great items to keep in your car and make sure that you always have on hand like definitely the basics. What would you guys say are some of the challenges of being itinerant and being sustainable?

Jeremy:

I think it’s making sure you carry enough things, especially if you go from one place to another, like I… a couple weeks ago went to Darwin, which was like 35 degrees. And then I hadn't really thought it through but then I went to Adelaide and I hadn't gotten my coat and jumper and that sort of thing. So making sure you've got clothes ready for any conditions, making sure you pack things that you know you… as you said, Joan making sure you got a good hat gets extremely get very burned so if you're not careful here. Making sure you got the right footwear. And if you have got time to jump in a pool somewhere and actually bring you bathers and there's word. Now what do you guys call bathers?

Kassy:
Bathing suit.

Jeremy:
We could base a podcast purely on language I think.

Kassy:
I think so too! Do women also call their bathers bathers?

Jeremy:
Oh it varies, it varies around Australia. we have cossies because in Australia, we shorten everything so the costumes becomes a cossie. You chop the word in half an i, it’s the basic rule.

Kassy:
So it was a bathing costume once. Yeah, I get it. Okay.

Joan:
Oh, wow.

Jeremy:
And then in some states, they got this… the men wear trunks.

Joan:
Yeah, that's familiar here, too.

Jeremy:
Yeah. Okay, cool. I think we're going off topic. Another of my favorite things is just a plain old baking tray, a flat one, because I like the baking trays so things don't fall off it. And then I've cut up various fridge magnets and things into strips, and really good for adults and children to see if they really understand the concept where we're being a bit of a mud map. So that's good. But then again, you want to keep the weight down. So I tend to say when I get to someone's house, and we're trying to explain something, I try not to take all these heavy stuff. So I say how about we sit with a couple of chairs in front of your parents fridge, and put fridge magnets all over the fridge if we can all the side of the fridge. And the fridge is very good with whiteboard marking pens too, you can actually write the next appointment on the fridge using a whiteboard marker. And then they can do whatever size print you want. And they won't forget when you come in next time.

Joan:
That's a really good idea. I used to Wheatley because it's lighter, and it folds up and sits in my backpack. But I have a couple tray maps like that. It's really good idea.

Jeremy:
Lego bricks are brilliant. Flat piece of Lego. A lego, we call it plate and input Lego bricks on it. So it's nice and light so I’m thinking now the different modes of what did the same trick but is the lighter. And as you were saying Joan, things with things with cardboard are really good too. You can play around with cardboard and making shapes. If it's a school student, you say let's make a map of a room in your house, we have a shoe box. So you can you can find things around. And rather than you having to take all the resources now I put it back to the store or the student and say somewhere in your house, you must have an old shoe box. So there's scurry off and come out of the shoe box maybe right? Let's make a map of your parents teaching some of that. So you just got to be a little bit more scrupulous with the amount of gear carrying the suitcase.

Funny story that Irish tribe travelled into a country town. And so when I was working in New South Wales, in my last jobs, I had a big station wagon that was another word that what you guys call a big car with a big back on it. And of course you can see through the windows and in this town as far as I knew there was only one person. Let's call him Rodney. And everybody in this town knows Robney because he's totally blind in either absolute character.

So to be confidential Of course you can't talk about Rodney in town. So I turned out to have my filmer car fuel, and the guy comes out to see whether I wanted the oil or water in my car and I said yeah, no, I'm good. Thank you and he looked through the window. Oh, you must be here to see Rodney. You’re from the blind dogs. They always get our name wrong. You’re from Blind Dogs aren’t you? They try blind dogs are no good whatsoever. But you look through the window and they ask, you must be here for Rodney again? No, I might not be there might be somebody else. There's no I know the whole of his town has only Rodney Well Oh, you never know, there could be somebody neither of us knows. And I just kept worming way out of the story with him talking about Rodney. So the rule, the moral of that story is cover up all the stuff in your car, and guide dogs where I work, we have loaders all over your car, because we're always promoting the service we have. And so it's very hard not to promote who you are without somebody saying, I know why you're here.

Kassy:
I love it when they can see that you're working with someone? And like, why aren't you helping them?

Jeremy:
Yes, Sending us out of the road. Why don't you help them across the road?

Kassy:
Never wearing a shirt with a logo like that.

Joan:
I have a lot of students where there's only one student in the building that has any kind of vision impairment. And we have lots of very small towns where there's no street signs, or street signs, yes. Street lights, no. So I have to take them. So my biggest concern is taking too much of their day. So planning lessons so that when we get to a lesson we go, and that way we can get back otherwise, they miss so much of their school day, because I have to travel 30 minutes to get them to the nearest stoplight.

Kassy:
Yeah, you're allowed to have them in, in your vehicle. A lot of people aren't even allowed to do that.

Joan:
So well, I have to ask every meeting and make sure parents are aware of it. And just recently I had a parent go well, I kind of want to know where you're going. And it's like, okay, well, I'll let you know what our next lessons’ plan but I'm going wherever she needs to be in the school. So that's where you'll find this.

Kassy:
Exactly.

Jeremy:
So do you stay away from home in motels and things?

Joan:

I’m not usually, because I can... So I cover six towns within one county. And I think the furthest I've driven is an hour to a school, and then an hour home. Everything is within an hour of my workplace. Unless I go to the school, the blind and then it's four hours away. And there's only one school the blind in my state, because that's typically how they do it here.

Jeremy:
Yeah, yeah, we can travel probably four or five hours in a class from one page to another.

Joan:
Yes. From the school, the blind across to the west. It's about six hours.

Jeremy:
Wow.
Joan:
Yeah. So anybody who goes to the school of their has to travel. And if they do the summer programme, they allow those who travel to stay in the dorms during the week, and then they go home during the weekends.

Jeremy:
Yeah, I think that's the big thing about sustainability. How do you keep yourself alert and entertained and enjoy travelling when you're in the car. I like talking books. They are really good. I’ll get them from a local library. And that's quiet. Sometimes you turn up someone's house, and you almost don't want to get out because you get into a really good part of the story. They'll come out and meet you. And we leave in a minute. I just want to hear how this finishes.

Joan:
Or turn it off because it's students… not appropriate.

Jeremy:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joan:
I like mystery fiction. So it gets a little intense. And they're like, no. Yes, this state library has audio books. And right now my audio in my car doesn't work. So I have a Bluetooth speaker that connects to my phone. I just keep both of them plugged. And then usually I let the kiddos… I try to keep the same kind of station on. So it's uplifting. And we generally talk though in the car. What did we do last time? This is what we talked about doing this time? What do you remember? How did you do during the lesson kind of conversation? So.

Jeremy:
It's a very valuable path, isn't it sitting in the car and debriefing over a lesson or planning what we're going to do today? And some very inquisitive into what sort of car is this? And then you got to be careful, don't press any buttons and things. So I usually prefer children sit in the back so you can actually understand that. That's the drive and not think they're going to press some buttons somewhere. 

Joan:
Yep. I don’t let them sit in the front. It’s just safer.

Jeremy:
Okay, is that a policy with you?

Joan:
For me? Yes, because a lot of my kiddos are middle high school age. And I don't want anybody getting the wrong idea that we're just riding around town. So I have them sit in the back. Yeah, till I get to the one student who just doesn't fit back there. Because he's seven but tall.

Jeremy:
Yeah, I travel in different cars. We have a pool car system so drive to work and then pick up a car and then drive up to country towns and things with it. But the big one is making sure I've got things to listen to. I'm not very good at listening to music for a long time, I like to listen to talking things. So podcasts are a fantastic opportunity to learn things. And I hope there's podcasts people pick up things too. When I get to the actual motel, I used to have them in the car, you carry my own pillow, and a few artefacts which reminds me of a home. And one thing that makes me giggle and laugh is the fact that I've never really found a motel yet, where you can actually get the kettle under the chat in the bathroom. And I think there's a potential to make millions of dollars there, a kettle which actually fits under the chat.

So also making sure that you're, as I say, planning with clothes, make sure you're going to doubt carry plenty of water, and carry equipment for the breakdown and nighttime too. Cos you need a torch and that sort of thing. I've never really needed that. In Western Australia, when I worked there, I was notorious for having kangaroos in my car. And that can really damage the car. So making sure you've got telephone range, too. So I'd have to carry two different telephones in different companies. So Telstra and Optus, so that you've always got one phone, which was hopefully got some range. Way back in 1987, or 88. I used to have one of those huge, great phones, like a big brick. And it had a massive, great case. But they could never call anybody because no one else had a phone. So used to pull over in the middle of the night up to phone boxes and let somebody back in network know that you're still alive. And okay, so that was fine. Yeah.

Challenges faced that made you choose one of the items chosen to be brought around

Kassy:
I couldn't do that. I'd love to know from you guys like what has been one of the challenges that you face that made you choose one of the items that you are chosen? Like, have you gotten to a lesson and forgotten things? Or how did you get to where you are right now with figuring out how to organise everything?

Jeremy:
Yeah, I think like Joan mentioned was at the cane buddy. So that's the little Bambino thing that connects from one chain to another thing. That's a really handy device when you're first teaching rhythm and with the bark. And then I've been, I've forgotten that a few times. So I then went into a school office and found a really high grade elastic band, and I don't carry the team, buddy. Because it's not it's not a piece of equipment to carry. But you do take yourself and you think, oh, I should have brought that. Right. Yeah, yeah,

Joan:
I plan a monocular lesson. And I admire the students monocular. And it's in my backpack, in my car, and I didn't bring them to my car, because we're just walking around the neighborhood. I'm like, making sure it's in my pocket as I leave. And I carry those in that container too. Depending if the kid is old enough to have it at the school, I try to make sure they have it in the school. But some of my younger students, they, it's just a toy for them. So they… I don't leave it with them. 

Kassy:
Right. So I definitely see that and trying to figure out what items to leave at somebody's house or bring with you. And Jeremy, you had also mentioned, you know, giving them some autonomy in the lesson as well. Ho get you know, a shoe box, or can you know, a lot of people have baking trays can borrow a baking tray, or cookie sheet or something of that nature. And a lot of times, you know they do, or maybe even can use those like roll up very thin magnet, you know, like, it's like paper or something of that nature, something that's really been in light. I'd loved all of the things that you guys have shared, I really appreciate it. Today we're really just talking about the why behind what they keep in their car, and how they got to where they are right now. As far as organisation and for a lot of us. It's just running into an obstacle running into an obstacle running into an obstacle and having to overcome that. figure it all out. As we close this conversation. Would you guys like to share any last tidbits or anything else that you wanted to say?

Jeremy:
No. I really looking forward to having our webinar in November. And perhaps we didn't have a few people drop a few text messages in what they keep in the car and we can talk to that as well. So hopefully it's gonna be a conversation we can share. But it's a challenge. And I think sometimes I used to think as O and M specialists, you've got to have really special sophisticated equipment. But what we're trying to teach in O and M, is the concept itself. And if we were teaching sighted children, perhaps our own children a particular concept, you wouldn't be reaching for a sophisticated piece of equipment to teach you. It'd be using something quite simple and remember When my kids were growing up at Christmas, and grabbed for Christmas to have Christmas, when they were growing up. They would have a lot more fun sometimes with a cardboard box where the presents came in than they did with the actual presents. And I think we need to keep that in the background. Mine is an awful lot of really handy resources around in wonderful Australian bush, you can find a few sticks and a few leaves and a few bits in this and the other. And it also makes it more interesting because the children themselves or the grownups themselves, or the clients themselves are actually using things around them. And as you say, Kassy being more resourceful themselves more autonomous, making their own fun not relying on an expert to find fun for them. So really looking forward to it, what a great opportunity.

Joan:
I had to agree with Jeremy. I mean, the biggest thing we struggle with here in my rural area is the drive time to get to the location where we need to work. So I tried to make sure I've prepared enough conversation topic or enough materials that can be used in the back of the car, which is a cookie sheet with magnets, or a Wheatley with the Velcro, something to review. That way they can think and they can focus on what's in front of them, because some of them also get carsick. So I also keep Nick gum in the car. Yeah.

Jeremy:
You haven't prepared a lesson and you think this is going to take up the whole hour? Because they're going to have to know all these learn all these concepts. And then within the first five minutes, you suddenly realise, oh, no, they've got the whole concept already. Now, what do I do? How many trials? How are you… what else you can do?

Joan:
Yes. They had all of it. And I had no idea they were that far in and they could do it. So I love it when they surprise me like that.

Jeremy:
Yeah, it's a job that’s always full of surprises. And in 30 old years is never a day goes past when I'm absolutely amazed with how resourceful people are, and how we attend to our work too. Keeps us interested.

Kassy:
People who, you know, listen to a podcast like this, and the people who join the symposium and take our webinars are really dedicated, O and M specialists. And you know, we're all over the spectrum as far as like, where we fit as far as our lives. And if we're feeling burnt out, or if we're just, you know, really hustling right now, or we've, you know, been able to balance these things.

And one of the really key points that we want to do with this symposium has helped to bring your life more into balance by lifting you up with these innovative strategies and giving you a global perspective. And Jeremy, I think that you really just sit on it. We all seem to kind of be doing the same things and really enjoy the same parts of this job, even though we are in different places. When I talk to you, Jeremy, makes me think of, Oh, how would I handle that? If that were in my position? Or if that were… if those were my obstacles, and it elevates my perspective a lot.

And then Joan, same thing with you, when I talk to you. It's the same I think, oh, my gosh, how would I even handle this? How does this fit into my box? How does it not fit into my box? And a lot of times people will say, Well, that doesn't work for me. But that's kind of the wrong question. The question is, how can I make this work For me? Not does this work for me, it's not black or white. It's just thinking about how can I make this one idea work for me. And even if it's not right now, you'll have these ideas later, because when, you know, either maybe like change jobs, or maybe you have a different caseload, and you're going further or your district changes their policies, or whatever the case may be that you can't foresee coming, then you can pull on these strategies.

So I first of all want to thank you, Joan, and Jeremy, for coming on this podcast to share these fun stories and to connect with us. Share a little bit about yourselves with our community, and then also to our amazing, amazing community. I invite you to join us on November 10, at 8pm Eastern Standard Time, you can sign up for that at alliedindependenceonline.com/training, alliedindependenceonline.com/training will get you to the registration page. And then you can sign up there will be a replay but as always, the fun is when you are there live. And so if you can make it live, please, please please do so we've made it specifically at a time where a lot of people around the world can make it.

And then of course, as always, we encourage you to check out the symposium at the end of that webinar because we'll be sharing some behind the scenes and sharing our presenters for the first time which we have some amazing presenters yet right now Joan and Jeremy don't even know everybody who's joining us thus far. Well Joan might. But we've just nailed down our presenters. And we're in the process of formally getting down on our knee and asking if they'll please the presenter.

Jeremy:
Yeah, we… after a few years of being with the symposium, we always think, well, that's going to be the best it's ever going to be but every year, it just gets a little bit more interesting, a little bit more different. And we have so many fascinating speakers too. So I'm really looking forward to it.

Kassy:
Exactly. And you guys, you heard it from Jeremy, he's on the planning committee, and at the time of this recording doesn't know the agenda. Yeah. So and he's already looking forward to it. So am I Well, thank you guys so much. I'm so excited. Yeah, it's always turns out so good. Always. All right, friends. We will see you in just a few weeks and I know that you'll be joining us out of the training.