Topics:

kids, learners, teachers, collaborate, life, disabilities, students, multiple, classroom, impairments, routine, collaboration, visual impairments

Welcome back to the podcast, my friends! Let’s dive deep into the power of collaboration, uncovering the invaluable strategies and insights that we can use to effectively meet the needs of our learners. Let us all learn from Rebecca Taylor, a dually certified Teacher of the Visually Impaired and Orientation and Mobility Specialist, as she shares her collaboration strategies, how they can be helpful in unlocking the full potential of our learners, and how she dealt with the problems that arose along the way.

In this podcast episode:

• Who is Rebecca Taylor?

• Does she have lots of students with multiple impairments and regular SPOE academic learners?

• The importance of having a diverse caseload

• How she struggled and was impactful with so many different types of students

• How she managed the time her students weren’t with her

• What has been one of the most rewarding moments of collaborating with other teachers, especially for learners with visual and multiple impairments?

• Selling people your idea

• What has been one of the most successful ways that she has collaborated with the general ed or special ed teachers with your learners?

• What is one piece of advice that you would give our community that would help them to take one step forward into being better teachers?

Transcript of the Podcast

You know, when your learners leave your class, and then they stopped doing that thing that you just worked on? Like, why the complete lack of generalization? And what ends up happening is that our learners then don't practice those skills, and they don't get better at them. And then they come back to you, maybe incrementally a little bit better. So then in your next class, you're basically doing the same thing, only maybe a little bit more, maybe because they haven't practiced it. It's like if you go to the gym once a week and you do 10 Push-ups, are you going to get stronger? Kind of probably, but not as much as if you went to the gym every day, and did 10 Push ups that difference over time matters. And it matters a lot. But we can't control what other people do. Or, can we? Are there ways to get our learners to generalize our skills even more, and be able to actually like make a lot more progress?

Now it's even more difficult with learners with visual and multiple impairments because they can't just go home and say, Hey, Mom and Dad, I learned XYZ in class today, or Hey, Teacher, this is what we did. And this is how what this teacher did is different than what you're doing, how should I do it, they don't necessarily have that ability. And so we have to be the ones to collaborate even more with their teachers, or special ed teachers, or whatever teachers they're working with, and their parents. But really, who has the time for that? Let's be real. It's so stressful. And it can be so hard to find the time to call every single teacher to make sure that you have a relationship with them. Or sometimes they don't do what you ask them to do. And that is frustrating in and of itself. So how do we fix this? What do we do? Well, with our TVI online symposium, our planning committee really wanted to host a webinar and help you through these exact issues. And we realized that if we focus on two areas, and then like a bonus third area, we could really knock down a lot of dominoes, and they are these collaborations. How do we get the other teachers that we work with to do the things that we think that they should be doing without stressing them out too much? Number two routines. Just like you need a routine, I need routines, everybody needs routines. And on a personal note, like last night, I was up at 11pm. I'm sure you've done this. But I was up at 11pm having this full blown panic attack because it's summer. And I was just like, oh, the issue is I don't have a routine. I'm waking up at different times, I'm going to bed at different times. I am going to the gym at different times I'm eating different things. I just don't have a routine. So I literally sat down and was like, Okay, this is my routine from now on. And I planned out all of my dance classes. I planned out my workouts I planned out when I'm going to walk my dog because I've just been trying to figure it out every single day and that gets so stressful. I barely have brain power to think about anything else when I'm out of my routine. Does that sound familiar? So if we go through that, then don't you think our learners go through that as well, but they have even less control over their lives. I have full control over my life. And I still get stressed out when I don't know what's gonna happen, but I get to decide what's gonna happen. but they don't.

then the third area we thought about was bringing our learners with multiple impairments more into the gen ed. Experience. So what we're doing is we're decreasing the amount of restrictive environment that they're in slowly, surely, just different activities, and how can we collaborate with admins? How can we collaborate with the teachers, everybody involved, to allow our learners with multiple impairments to experience life with their Gen Ed peers. So Rebecca Taylor, who's on the podcast today, as well as Joel Brown, and Jana Ahmed are coming. And they are going to be having a live interactive panel hosted by yours truly, I love it on July 20th, and we're talking about these three key areas that our webinar what's working for TVI is specifically in the area of students with visual and multiple impairments. And we think if you focus on those, it expands so much more, and it knocks down those dominoes. And the ripple effect of it all is just enormous. So whether you have students with multiple impairments, right now you're going to have students multiple impairments, or you might have students have multiple merits in love future should be all of us, then I encourage you to come, it's completely free. It's our way of giving back to the community, we really, we super love to do it.

Early Bird registration for the TVI symposium is open right now you can just go to TVI symposium and sign up. But we like to have a party can at the end of early bird registration. And so that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna gather everybody, we're gonna offer you free information. And then at the very end, we're going to share with you what we've been working on for the TVI symposium. The agenda set, I'm so excited, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited to show it to you. You can send it off to your directors see what they think see if the TVR symposium is a right fit for you at this time. Let me tell you, the level of presentations that have stepped up. This is a conference that the community put on the community you wanted this, you asked for it. And finally, after two years of you guys asking for it. We were able to make space in our capacity at Allied and we were able to hire somebody else to come on board and we're hiring another person as well to really support this. And it's happening, you chose the presentations, you guys stepped up and said yes, I want to present. Everything is done by you. We're just the back end, which I am here for I completely love our system. And the way that we do things I think provides the most efficient delivery method possible. And the most fun, it's so engaging. It's so fun. It's so simple. It's so easy to use, and you really walk away with true friendships and true honest connections, even if you are worlds away. And that's one of the biggest things that I love about it. And it brings me closer to people like Rebecca.

Rebecca has been an orientation and mobility instructor for eight years. She currently works for Helen Keller, Helen Keller National Center and previously for guide dogs UK. Her specialties include working with students who are wheelchair users and or guide dog users. She holds a Master's in vision rehabilitation from Hunter College as well as a master's in clinical animal behavior from the University of Lincoln, UK. She has been a certified professional dog trainer since 2011, a certified tag teacher instructor since 2016, and has been tagged teach faculty since 2020. Tag teach has allowed Taylor to communicate with her sighted and visually impaired learners in a whole new way. And neither Taylor nor her learners would ever look back. Love, love love getting to speak with Rebecca, who was just I wanted to call Taylor. Because her insights are phenomenal. And she just gets it and she has such a passion and she has so many great ideas. She's not one of these teachers that's like oh, you know, this is the issue that I have. Oh, what how? I just couldn't figure it out too bad like, oh, and then grumbles about it? No. She's like, Oh, here's an issue. Great. Here's the solution. Like, yes, that's what I needed. Also, I wonder how she came up with those ideas and how she implements them. But we'll get into that. So come along. Take a seat. Grab your favorite beverage. I've got some sparkling water somewhere around here and And I hope you enjoy this lovely conversation.

Who is Rebecca?

Kassy

Welcome back to the podcast, my friends! I’m here with Rebecca Taylor, who is such an expert. And she has been such a blessing and amazing to get to know you as we work together for the TVI symposium. Rebecca, would you like to share a little bit about yourself with our community?

Rebecca

Sure. I am five years into the field. So just finishing up my fifth year. I haven't been in it too terribly long, but I've loved every single second of it. I am a dually certified teacher of the visually impaired and orientation and mobility specialist. And where I practice in North Carolina, I get to do both, which is fantastic and wonderful. I started this coming from special education. I met a friend who had multiple disabilities and who was also blind, totally blind. And he did not have the appropriate program planning. And I said, I want to know more. And I met him in January and started graduate school that summer. And I said I'm done. This is the change I want to make. And I haven't looked back since. And it has been an absolutely wonderful transition over and I've, like I said loved every second of it, and don't see me changing to anything different anytime soon.

Kassy

Wow. Can I ask what you were doing before?

Rebecca

I was what's just a low-incidence classroom teacher. So kids with severe and profound disabilities is what my background is in. My undergraduate is in what here in North Carolina, we call the adapted curriculum: So those with severe and profound disabilities are multiple disabilities.

Kassy

So you already had a background of education, it's not like so you're coming from finance or you are selling couches or something of that nature. You are, you knew a little bit and then you just dove headfirst into this aspect of it. So now is your caseload kind of diverse? Do you have a lot of students with multiple impairments and like regular SPOE academic learners? Or do you have more MI/VI students?

Rebecca

I have the biggest mix of kids you would ever find in your life. I have everything from kindergarten through 12th grade to standard course of study academic kiddos, where their only impairment is their vision impairment, or multiple disabilities, where vision is just one part of the puzzle, I literally have everything and anything on the entire spectrum of visual impairment, which is great! Makes for a very fun days.

Teaching learners with a variety of impairments

Kassy

Oh, it really does. And because you work in a district that has a lot of teachers of students with visual impairments, I'm sure that having such a diverse caseload is really good, because you still get to increase your knowledge and your teaching skills in a variety of areas.

Rebecca

Yes, I am constantly learning new curriculums that my standard course of study kids are using and how to modify it and how to change it. As well as you know, what's out there in the world that's being taught to our kids with multiple disabilities, and what does that look like. And, you know, until the topic of point, how to collaborate to meet the needs of all of our kids, and what that looks like, and how it does look different. So it's constantly keeping me on my toes, and, you know, constantly the need to learn new things and meet new people and collaborate with new people to make sure everybody's needs are being met. Because they are so vastly different.

Kassy 

Since they are so vastly different. What's one of the ways that you noticed maybe at the beginning of your career that you struggled, and being impactful in so many, for so many different types of students?

Rebecca

I really struggled to find kind of that, that space where I felt like I knew enough about what they were doing in their day to day just for all of my kids to be able to go in and say, Okay, here's where we need, you know, this modification, or here's where it needs to maybe look a little different, or here's where we need to change this, or can I suggest this or something like that is knowing that I knew enough about what was going on, in each kid's school, you know, because school environments are different. And you know, thankfully, in the district, the curriculums are the same, but teachers do things differently. You know, so really understanding what was happening and being able to process that information quickly, in order to adapt quickly where it's not three months into school, and yeah, we're finally getting the swing of it, where we can make those things, those changes a little bit faster. And I know that was a big struggle, because I didn't feel like I got my footing, you know, coming from a teaching background. I thought, Oh, well I can just switch over you know, there'll be a little bit of a learning curve, but I mean, I'm talking 6,7,8 months in to switching over to this position and I went I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing and a lot of it came from just having that diverse population of kiddos and not feeling like I knew enough about what they were doing all day every day to make those changes and to meet their needs.

Kassy

I think that that makes a lot of sense. And that's kind of an area that I struggled with when I was first starting out too. Mine was more so, I had a bunch of elementary school students. And then I was like, Well, what is their day gonna look like when they're in middle school? And what are their expectations going to be like when they're in middle school? Because I didn't know any middle schoolers. At the time. I was like, I came out of the field. This was my first job. So I was 22. And I didn't have experience anymore with middle schoolers. And are these kids doing the same thing that I was doing in middle school? And hopefully not because mmm. You mentioned two things that I kind of want to circle back to one that you're not there most of the time. And it's so true. We're only with our learners, I calculated it. And I think you and I may have talked about this, but I know we've talked about it on social quite a bit because it was so astounding when I calculated it. As we're only with our learners 1% of the time if we see them one hour a week. Two hours a week is, I believe, 2% of the time for their waking hours. So 99% of the time, though, with other people, of course, we don't know what they're doing, because we are with other people, also. So how did you… How'd you learn? Like, how did you solve that obstacle?

Rebecca

I made it a point at the beginning of the years, like the beginning of each kiddo school year, because I do live in a place where there is school, all of the time, there's lots of year-round options and things as well. So I've made it a point that at the beginning of the year, when I communicated with classroom teachers and case managers and families, even just within a simple introduction, to say, you know, to my classroom teachers, like, I'm going to come in, if I could spend the morning with you guys to see what it looks like. Or if I could spend the afternoon, you know, instruction is going to start week three, but I would just like to spend the morning in your classroom. And I would spend, you know, the first week to two weeks, you know, in some of the classrooms, they knew their structure, a lot of their kids hadn't changed in you know, three or four years with some of our multiple, you know, impairment, kiddos, they were kind of remained in the same classroom for years on end, just at each kind of level, elementary, middle and high. And so having that time to collaborate with them, for them to give me either an in depth look of what their day to day is like in their classroom, you know, because maybe they've developed that schedule with this group of kids. And so it works for them. So they're maintaining that schedule, so they can give me an in depth look of what it looks like for, you know, just spending, you know, morning meeting and reading time in the morning with those kids. And what did those transitions look like? And, you know, maybe coming back in one afternoon for math, and what does that look like? And just to get a better understanding, I took those first couple of weeks to kind of sit in those classrooms and to spend time, even if it was just, you know, some middle schoolers who don't want me in class with them, which is fine. You know, maybe I'd meet them in between classes and transition with them for them to tell me what's going on. So I knew, you know, in addition to talking to their teachers, just to get that better, like inside picture of what it looks like, because I'm not there all the time,

Kassy

You're already kind of hitting on what we had planned on talking about with this episode. And I asked you to come on, because in our conversations, you and I, we can go off on tangents about collaboration because it's so huge. And I think that we just scientifically proved why we need to collaborate. And on the webinar that's coming up on July 20, which will be live and there will be a replay for those of you guys who can't come to it live. So we still encourage you to sign up. You know, as we were planning it, you had the idea of collaboration and the things that you're going to talk about all the the how to collaborate and, and how you actually do the things that you do, which I remember at that meeting, I was like, Oh my gosh, what how do you this this idea? Like, is that possible? And it blew my mind, I would have never thought that some of the things that you do were even possible. So I found that the power of collaborating with the other teachers, what has been one of the most rewarding moments that you found with collaborating with other teachers, especially for your learners with visual and multiple impairments.

Rebecca

I mean, it literally happened a couple of weeks ago and I think I mentioned it before when we were chatting is I had a teaching assistant from a classroom that I have not been in in Oh goodness, I guess I've been out of that classroom for three years now. It was a K2 you know, severe multiple disabilities classroom. And I served quite a few kids in that class and part of my you know, beginning of year thing as I went in I said, I want to know what your day looks like they have a new teacher in the room too. But the teaching assistants had been there for years. And, you know, I said, you know, what, what do you guys need? You guys know, these kids, you know, I'm new to your room, you know, that sort of thing. I didn't have all that information yet. And we did this materials collaboration. And she let me know, again, just a couple of weeks ago, before the end of the year, that she needed more materials. And where did I get all this stuff because they had reproduced it so many times they were falling apart, and that they couldn't get it. So it was just like, even three years later, that those materials were not even just beneficial to like my kids with visual impairments and multiple disabilities, but just to the class as a whole. And they use them so often, and she had recreated them with the stuff that I left, that she said, You have to know we use these all day, every day, it was things that they were able to take and like integrate from morning meeting, to their one on one rotations into their IEP stuff, and that they just used it all the time. And I said, See, look, just because of a couple things we did at the beginning of the year, you're using it three, four years later, like, I can't ask for anything better than that. Like that's, that's the kind of text message I want to get you though, years later, even if I forget your name, which I don't do on purpose. You know, like that's, that's the message I want to receive. You know, even if you text me 15 years from now, you're retired and you're like, they just text me a picture asking me where I got this stuff. Like, that's the that's the stuff I want to get.

Collaborating with other teachers in your student’s life

Kassy

Yeah. Instead of the usual which would be you go there and you see the calendar system, and it's not being used. I walked into a class and I looked at my calendar, and it was, you know, like a tactile calendar, not object. Little, I wanted to say grass strip. That was weird carpet. Oh, I've been in this profession for half of my life. And literally what was going to come out of my mouth was a carpet. I mean, it was it would have been

Rebecca

a grass strip.

Kassy

It wasn't, it was not. Can you imagine putting little title symbols on grass, the worst actual?

Rebecca

Hey, that'd be something to figure out, though.

Kassy

I know, right? But anyways, I walked into the class. And it was kind of towards the end of the year. And I saw what I knew was supposed to be her schedule. But they had changed the actual real life schedule. And they didn't know. They didn't like put together the symbols equal this thing. So who knows if it was actually being used at all. And I've been there almost the whole year. So I was like, Oh, why have I never seen this? Yeah. But typically, that's what you see. So I fortunately, unfortunately, right. And I think it kind of goes to show how well you supported them in their understanding of not only what do you use, and what these symbols might mean, but why and how to create them because they were able to recreate them for three years after you. And I know, in our conversation before you said you love them a lot of materials, which is support for them, they need that they need that help, because they don't know exactly, they can't go to a craft store and look at things the way that we can to see the ideas and like, oh, that's gonna work. That's not gonna work. How did you support them three years ago, do you remember?

Rebecca

It was a you know, again, just in that beginning of your phase, because they had had some of those students in that class for, you know, like, I was catching them a second graders was my first year with them. So they had had these kids for kindergarten and first grade. So when we, when I came in at the beginning of the year, you know, just basically to introduce myself, even just on the teacher work days, it was not just me, I tried to make it not a me coming in, especially because I was so new to obviously you don't want to let people know like, oh, by the way, I'm new. I have no idea what I'm doing yet. Because that doesn't instill a lot of confidence in people. But I walked in and I said, Hey, you know, I noticed a lot of these kiddos are second graders, like, what do you already know about these kids, and you tell me about these kids, because this is my first year with them. And you know them better than I do just on a day to day, even if they don't understand a lick about their vision and how they see things. They still work with those kids from 845 in the morning until four o'clock in the afternoon, whatever time they're there all day, every day, even if they don't understand, you know, the medical pieces and the vision pieces and the all of the different things. They are still with those kids all day every day. So they are going to know those kids better than I do just out of the gate no matter what. And just bringing them into that and letting them know like I'm not here to come in and tell you like yeah, I'm gonna explain it to you, and I'm going to help you understand, you know, what the what these kids need visually, just from, you know, a medical standpoint just with their diagnosis like, hey, they need to wear glasses to see things far away. Here's why. You know, like, Yeah, I'm gonna help you understand and explain that sort of thing. But I'm not going to just sit here and say, Well, you have to do this, and you have to because nobody is going to then want to do it, they're going to look at it and go, Well, this crazy lady came in and told me what I had to do. And they weren't a part of it. But they know, I don't know, these kids. So just making them feel like they were a part of that process in helping me understand so that even by week two, you know, they said, Hey, Mr. Baca, we need, you know, we're feeling like they're not participating to their fullest abilities. And to the fullest extent, they can't even just like in morning meeting, here's what we do in morning meeting, this is what it looks like, how can I make it more engaging for them. And if they wanted to come with me Come to me, because they're like, she didn't just come in here and hand us a bunch of crap and say, Here do this. And then it feels like they had to, so they wanted to work with me, because they love those kids, they love those kids more, they're there for the same reasons you and I go in every day, like, they love those kids more than anything, they don't want those kids sit around and do nothing. But if they don't, if they don't have that buy in, it's the same thing we do when we're teaching our kids like, we got to get them to believe that what they're doing and what they're learning is for the betterment and independence of them. Like, adults kind of need the same thing sometimes. And if they feel like they're just being told left and right what they have to do. I mean, I know, I don't want to know about you, but if somebody just comes in and tells me what to do, you know, like, outside of maybe like the IEP process, because that's legal. But you know, like those sort of, I don't want people just storming around telling me what to do, I want to be a part of the process. And so that part of it seemed to help because even with the first recreation of the materials, like while I was still there, with the materials that have been left behind, we did it together. And that was something that they contacted me. So they felt like they were a part of it, not just that they helped you know that they helped create it, I gave them the ideas and came in and said, Hey, like, look, I've got all this stuff, let's do this, or, you know, we can add auditory by this. And we can add the tactile for this, like, yeah, you're gonna have to do it hand under hand. But here's what that looks like. You know, they knew it made more sense to them. So they were more willing to participate and to do it that way, which was super helpful.

Kassy

What I hear a lot from what you're talking about, is the concept of being the guide and not the hero. Have you heard of that?

Rebecca

Definitely. Definitely.

Kassy

Like, our brains can't process somebody else being the hero in our lives. And you don't need them to be the hero in your life. Like, I'm going to save you. You're like I wasn't drowning? No, I'm doing okay, just the same as they are. They're like, okay, maybe I'm floundering a little bit or maybe like teaching is hard. But I don't need you to save me. And while you were doing that, and because you did that you built a lot of trust, and respect and buy in. And you did it in a fun way that allowed them even though that teacher knows your first year they can smell it on you the moment always can. Like, if I see oh my gosh, my kid, my own child had a first year teacher, his for kindergarten, man.

Rebecca

Oh, you know it right.

Kassy

I was like, Oh, girl, check out this training girl. Check this. Oh, you know it. All right, the principal. I'll get your day off. Like, I know. And I can tell you haven't even done your internship yet. So they know that's not like so we're fooling anybody. Yeah. So I remember my first year I felt like, oh, I have to be the expert in this area. And oh, they're all depending on me to know the answers where I would have saved all of us if I had just said, I don't know. Can you tell me? What do you think instead of feeling like I had to like it was a shameful like, I had to hide it underneath the rug. Like they knew I was just there for my internship. But even if you're not a first year teacher, or you know super green and you do know this kid and you have no Not, not student, maybe you've had a student for 15 years. And he or she is coming in on their senior year of high school as a student with multiple impairments and they have a first year teacher. In that case, maybe you do know more about the student than that teacher does. But in the same, you Rebecca, we're there to give support, not to take it over and to do so in a way. The other thing that I hear is that you did so In a way that they could buy into it, and that you spoke to them in a way that they could hear you.

Rebecca

Yeah, I think about the way like when I go to professional developments put on by my district, and you know, or when I just professional developments just in the field in general, you know, certain presenters, even if I love their topic, and I want to hear what they have to say, sometimes it's just the way people say things can be perceived in such a way that you're like, I missed all of that, because why were you like, there was nothing in that that was, what am I even supposed to do with this outside of just, okay, I took my notes, sounds great. You know, and then you move on. And I think about that, even just as an adult, even as not even relating to teaching at all, just in general of like, I know, I'm coming from having been a classroom teacher, where I worked with many related service providers, and I had, you know, I worked in a classroom, I was the lead teacher, as, of course, as a new teacher, which that shows a lot to walking into a room with kids with multiple disabilities. You know, my teaching assistants, for darn sure knew more than I did. When I walked into that room, every related service provider had been with those kids longer than I did, and I got talked out a lot. And I said, that doesn't help me, I still don't even know what to do right now. Like, I had my schedule set. I knew what curriculum I was teaching, it made sense. But, you know, then the PT came in and told me I had to do this with this kid. And I said, Great. How, why? What? You know, and then the OT came in and said, Oh, well, this one needs to work on XYZ goals. And I'm, like, cool, how, why? What like I, and I knew how that made me feel. And I was like you, you have to approach it in such a way or, again, my experience, because I've been on both sides, the classroom teacher getting the information, and now being the person giving that information. But like when that ot said, Hey, I'm gonna come to reading, or you're writing rotation, and we're gonna do it together. I said, Oh, got it, or like, now that makes sense, or Now I understand why I have to do it. Because now look what they can do by themselves, you know, things like that, where it's like you don't, they're just telling you all of these things, there's no, there's no support, it's just a, I checked a box off of a list of things that I have to do at the beginning of every year. And then then you find yourself having to do it a month later. And then you have to do it a month after that. Because every time you walk into the room to you know, either pull the kid out or to check in and see how they're doing that, like you said, What's your schedule is like, what do you mean, it's all different? Like, what do you mean, you changed your schedule? Why didn't anybody say anything, or like, it should look a heck of a lot different. Those are not the symbols we should be using. But here's why. Where it's like, if there have been that part of like collaboration, just even ahead of time, even if it's just a five minute text message, you know, on the way to school, or hey, can I call you on my drive to school this morning, five minutes, typically doesn't need a lot. Because once everybody gets to know their kids, it's just a hey, I'm thinking about doing XYZ, how does something like that sound, super simple. But being told versus being worked with are two very different things. Very, very different.

Selling your ideas to others

Kassy

I will 100% agree. And a lot of times as the itinerant we don't take into consideration the whole of that teacher's day, especially if they have multiple students with multiple impairments. This one kid gets OT once a week, for 30 minutes here, this learner gets OT twice a week, this… just trying to remember all of their schedules. And then for us coming in, it can be it can feel frustrating when a teacher doesn't do exactly what we tell them to do. Because we are the expert, we do know. And we have always that we want to get things done. But if they don't understand the reason behind it, or if they don't have the support, or if it just doesn't fit into their day. And I think one of the soft skills that we miss in university and maybe it's taught now but it's like how to sell people on your ideas. And I didn't learn how to do that until I had to learn how to sell. And then I was like, Oh, I've been doing this though. And it was all wrong.

Rebecca

Yep. Now if I didn't want it through my university, even through my master's program, or my undergraduate, and those were both education-based programs, I didn't learn that either. And it's very much I think, as I've changed from you know, being a classroom teacher to the TVI Oh nm it's a lot easier when it when vision is involved because you can sell the impacts of vision just across the board as a whole because For most of their teachers and their classmates and or just their peers in the world, because vision is such a low incidence disability in the world of disabilities, that you can sell them on the importance of working on these skills and making sure they're integrated and utilizing all of that, you know, in there, but again, selling it and telling them that this is why it's important versus helping them see why it's important at the same time is key because it is, you know, it's easier to sell. But if you don't do it in the right way, you're going to be checking in eight months later wondering, why are they not progressing? Like why is this skill not being integrated like this is, we can do this in like, 75 times throughout the day, even just during morning meeting, I could do this 75 different ways till Tuesday, but I live in this world all day, every day, they don't. So it's easy for me, because again, I'm doing it all day, every day in this very niche little world. And they simply don't live in that same world we do. So we have to really tell them and collaborate with them as to why these things should be integrated. And then seeing the benefits, especially for our kids with visual impairments with multiple disabilities, that the things that we do with our kids can be beneficial for so many other kids like just that Universal Design for Learning, where just you know, like, the ramps don't hurt me, but they help so many people, you know, certain handles on the door don't hurt me, they're actually really helpful when my hands are full, you know, that sort of thing. And it's, you know, the the modifications and things that we do and the supports that we provide, yes, it's helpful for our kids, it's a necessary thing for our kids, but it can be so helpful for so many others, and helping them see that is huge. Successful ways to collaborate with other teachers

Successful ways to collaborate with other teachers (General and Special ed)

Kassy

That's actually a really good point that I don't know that I've ever even really taken into consideration. But of course, you're gonna get more buy in if the teacher has to do one thing, and it helps all of their learners, and maybe can help all of their learners not just this year, but in future years. And they can just keep doing that same thing, because it is a universal design or modification. That's really cool, Rebecca. So I know in the webinar, we're going to talk a lot about the how, because we'll have more time, and we'll be in more of a teaching setting there. Well, it's been one of the most successful ways that you've collaborated with the general ed or special ed teachers with your learners.

Rebecca

Regular check ins or meetings or whatever that looks like to best meet your kids needs. I recently with one of my kids started implementing a Google form that I sent to their teachers at that I sent to the students teachers at the end of the week, it was literally three questions. Two of them were checkboxes, one of them was an open ended, do you need any support from me? Just a very simple something. And sometimes they just said they would email me back and go all good this week, didn't even need anything else, no support, or it was great. Or they fill it out, or they write something in the box, because it may have been like a click Data Collection goal that I needed to like check in with teachers every so often. But I sent it at the end of every week, it was the same form just a quick like, literally automated it on email, sent it out. Same link, it was the same everything. And then I could at the end of you know, the kids IEP or the end of the month where I could look at things. And I knew if I found out on a Friday that I could touch base with them on Monday and go, Hey, here's how we can try XYZ we know whatever concern they had or like, Hey, I've got an upcoming project next week. I don't know how to modify it, or I don't know what it needs to look like for this kid. Great. When are you free next week, I'm gonna come and watch it, we'll do it together, you know, or whatever. And it gave them that space that they didn't have to like, take the extra time to seek me out. They didn't have to do anything extra. And it was literally three questions. It took them. They said it took 15 seconds at the end of their day to just boom, boom, boom, done. And that was it. Sometimes they leave the box empty was blank. And it was easy. It was simple. It was nothing. And that was super helpful, at least for that particular kid. That was exactly what she needed. Because, you know, a lot of it was just observation based. What was she doing? Was she needed in class? Was she getting the support she needed? Was she speaking up when she needed, you know, that sort of thing. And let's just say she mastered that goal real quick. It was real nice. And she got everything she needed and really advocated for herself that year in middle school. So it was awesome.

Kassy

It what a great success story. Oh, yeah. How fantastic for that learner to have that much support. And you were able to automate it. And then the teacher knew to look for it on Friday. And they knew that like, Okay, I'm drowning on Wednesday. I'm really struggling here. But I don't have to contact Rebecca and make it this whole big thing. I don't have to get emotional. I'd know that I'll be able to write one sentence in a Google for him on Friday, so I can still focus on my Wednesday tasks. And I know that I'm gonna get support, probably knowing that that support was available, and that you were there probably helped so much.

Rebecca

It cut down a lot of the text messages I was getting from teachers panicked, um, like, a lot of, you know, just the fumbled the panicky messages that you get from people who are like, hey, you know, I knew at the beginning of the year that the, that two of the three teachers that I was emailing that form two, had never wants to child with a visual impairment ever. And, you know, and on top of that, she did have, she was a academic standard course of study, kiddo. But she did have some other outside of her vision, she had some other learning needs as well. So a couple of those teachers had told me at the beginning of the year that they had never taught a child with a visual impairment before. And before we got that form set up, you know, it took me a hot minute to kind of streamline the questions, they would get one every couple of weeks that were, you know, 5,6,7 questions. And that was not functional for anybody. I didn't want to sift through it. They didn't want to do it, if it was too much. And again, it was the talking to them, and just working with them and figuring out what's going to make this the easiest for you guys, you know, with the understanding of one I'm always available. That's never the question. I'm always here, but what's going to make it the easiest for you? And they said, Can we do it every week? But can it be short? Absolutely. 100%? How about I give you two questions, two, yes, no questions and a blank box. I said, that would be great. Literally, it hit them at the end of the school day. And they said it took them 30 seconds to complete. If they actually had something to write in the bottom less if they didn't, I would always touch base with them. Didn't necessarily mean like, I would be there first thing Monday morning, but they knew something would be in place, you know, and I'd give them as much as I could over email or I'd let them know like, hey, if you've got time, Monday before school, send me what the concerns are, because I know I can't get to you until Thursday or Friday. And I don't want you to feel like, Hey, I'm not going to be there. I just physically cannot get to you until Thursday or Friday. So send it send it to me send me as much as you can, if whatever you've got time for, and I'll give you as much as I can like via email or, you know, if something comes up, let me know, you know, just as it comes up, but letting them know, when I was going to be there. And they said super helpful. So again, it was just that collaboration piece of getting them to what what can I do for you, you know what you need, you have to tell me where I can come in and provide that support for you.

Kassy

Yeah, you collaborated with them. And the first thing that you tried didn't work, but you didn't give up? You didn't go mad at them. You didn't scold them, you didn't say how come you're not doing this, blah, blah, blah, and his mean attitude, it was probably like, hey, I really want to create a way that I can support you because I know your job is hard, and coming in with empathy and understanding that their lives are hard to nobody, nobody gets out of teaching. Easy peasy. Nobody skates through this.

Rebecca

Nope. And it was that really of the I want to make it easier for you. By having a kid who has diverse needs in your class. It's not, it's not going to be easy, but I can hopefully do things to make it easier. And if a shorter Google Form is going to do that, then that's what we're going to do, what is it so that we can all still meet those needs without taking any more because I don't want to take their time off. You know, sometimes it's necessary given the kid, you know, full Braille readers, they're gonna require a little bit more this kiddo is not a braille reader, but you know, things like that, it's gonna require a little bit more, but for the ones who just need the support, or as things come up, that they're pretty self sufficient with their knees, you're advocating for themselves. You know, we don't we don't want to make anything harder for teaching is not easy. In general, I don't want to come in and go, I'm gonna make your life 10 times harder. Here you go. You know, that's whatever we can do to make it easier because it's not easy.

A Final word to help you take “A Step Forward”

Kassy

And it's not. Well, that was just one little tip. And I have my mind is already below and I can't wait to implement this next year. We're gonna learn so much more from you at the upcoming webinar. And I cannot wait for it. So at the upcoming webinar, if you guys aren't aware, we're going to be talking about the power of collaboration and how Rebecca actually puts these things into place. And you'll be able to ask her your questions live. If you come live, you'll be able to ask anything that you want to know. We're also going to be talking about routines with Jill Brown. She's going to walk us through the power of routines and how we can get them implemented in like really simple, easy, effective ways. And Deanna Ahmed is coming in and she's going to be sharing about how she gets her learner's with multiple impairments to be more included in the general education In setting and she's in Malaysia, which we love talking with Deanna because her life is very similar to ours and also kind of different. So you'll get to hear more about about that. And Jana and Jill, were both also on other podcast episodes, you guys can go listen to that. Well, Rebecca, I just want to thank you so much. But before I let you go, I had to ask you one last question. And that is, what is one piece of advice that you would give our community that would help them to take one step forward into being better teachers.

Rebecca

Um, listen to what other people have to say, you don't have to do what they say. But if you listen to other people, things are gonna stick things are gonna go in one ear and out the other but especially classroom teachers and the people that you have to work with for the next years worth of time. Just listen to what they have to say because it's going to make collaborating with them and working with them a heck of a lot easier.

Kassy

All right, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I just truly appreciate it.

Rebecca

Thank you. It's a great time as always.