Welcome back to the podcast my friend! I'm so glad that you are here. We are sitting down with Katie Ericson who has such a unique and interesting perspective on TVI and O&M because she has a very interesting journey that she went on that is different than most other people that I know.

In this podcast episode:

• Who is Katie Ericson?

• Getting her Master’s Degree

• What’s it like working in Japan?

• How Katie’s work system look like

• How were things like during the pandemic?

• What Katie wanted to accomplish with her doctorate

• Taking a step forward with Katie

Transcript of the Episode:

Kassy:
Katie most recently worked as an itinerant TSBVI Comms with military connected students in the Pacific region. And she is currently a PhD student in Special Education at the University of Nebraska Lincoln. She is particularly interested in providing effective distance consultation for students with visual impairments, developing meaningful professional development for TSBVI and O&M specialists and physical activity and recreation for individuals with visual impairments.In this episode, we get into not only her journey, but her thoughts about what happened overseas during the pandemic, how we can move to more transdisciplinary model and even some of the challenges that she faced teaching in Japan. So let's just get into it. 

Who is Katie Ericson?

Welcome to the podcast, Katie. I'm so excited that you are here. I have absolutely loved working with you the little bit that we have and when we've collaborated. And so I asked you to be on our podcast because I think that you have such an incredible and unique story that I've always been so curious about and I think that our community can learn a lot from. Would you like to introduce yourself and let us know how you got into the field to begin with?

Katie:
Sure. Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to talk today. My name is Katie Ericson. I am, by background, an itinerant TVI and certified orientation and mobility specialist. I have kind of taken a step away, out of the field, and I am now a full time doctoral student. Just finished up my second year going into my third year at the University of Nebraska Lincoln. And I, like many of us, came into the field from another career. I thought I was going to be a geographer. And after spending some time teaching English overseas, I discovered or really rediscovered that what I was really passionate about was special education, and providing accommodations, modifications working with students, who in the US would be in special education, but in a different context were not. And so I came back to the US realizing that I was not equipped with the skills that I needed to really be effective in these students’ lives.

So I came back, got certified to teach special education and spent some time teaching preschoolers with all sorts of different disabilities. And from that, I know that we're not supposed to have favorite students, but I did. I had a student who was gifted and talented, but also visually impaired and working with him was always a challenge and a joy. And fortunately, his TVI was very receptive to having me shadow her, learn from her. I became very passionate about learning everything that I could about the field and decided that that was really what I wanted to do my masters in. I looked into your master's programs in Special Education with a specialization and visual impairments. And unfortunately, I was in Oklahoma, and the program that they had no longer really existed. I apparently was the first person in five years to have even expressed interest. And so, at that point, I started putting out feelers and asking, where can I go that would give me the best experience? And that is how I ended up at Vanderbilt working on my master's.

Kassy:
Wow, quite the story. So going back, you started in the field, when you were working in special ed in like a preschool right?

Katie:
Yes.

Getting her Master’s Degree

Kassy:
Wow. And then I love how we have such a profound effect on the lives of our learners, but they also have profound effects on our lives. That one student who you talked about who had a visual impairment, that's what prompted you to go get your Masters?

Katie:
Absolutely.

Kassy:
Oh, my gosh. And then I know that you've gone and taught overseas. Now, is that part of you already having a master's in teaching students with visual impairments or was that before where did that fall in, and then I'd like to go there at some point.

Katie:
So it was really before and after. So I was not quite sure what I wanted to do with a geography degree, which I actually and never ended up getting. And it's part of that discernment process. I went and taught English overseas in the Republic of Georgia. And that would have a very lasting impact on my teaching, and my perspective, and it was that experience that then led me back to the US to get certified to teach special education, and then go on and get my master's.

Post Master's, I worked briefly as an itinerant TVI in Alabama, and I got married about that time. My husband had spent some time when he was very little living in Rome, Italy. And I had spent that time in Georgia and both of us were interested, open to living overseas again. And so one of my colleagues at Vanderbilt had graduated from or gone through the Department of Defense school system, which, for those of you who are not familiar, because I certainly was not when she told me about this. For our active duty military members, when they go overseas, one of the things they tried to do to make things more supportive for their families, is providing schools like elementary, middle, high schools on base, and the schools provide instruction in English using an American curriculum so their family can move with them to Germany or Japan, come with them stay in school, just keep going with their education. So she had attended those schools growing up and said, you know, this is a really great way to work overseas, and not have to necessarily go all in, shall we say. And so shortly after getting married, I put in an application with the Department of Defense school systems, as a TVI.

To be honest, we were expecting a call for Europe. The process is very different than any other hiring process I've been through. So you go online, and you fill out basically your life story, what you're certified in, what training you've had, what you'd be willing to teach, where you would be willing to go. So like in my case, I said, you know, TVI would be first preference, but I'm also certified to do early childhood special education. Here are the places I'm willing to go. And then you just put all of that information out to them, and keep your fingers crossed, that eventually you get a phone call. There typically are not that many job postings. So it's just maybe you get a call, maybe you don't.

And I think it was about six, eight months after I put in my application, I got a phone call from someone asking if I would like to interview for an itinerant position outside of Tokyo, Japan. And we talked about this and said, well, at the very least, I should because I can get an understanding of what the interview process is like and what their expectations are. And if this is something I really want to do. And I interviewed and was offered the position, and not really knowing anything about Japan, the two of us decided this was where we were going to go so I worked for three years as an itinerant TVI and eventually certified orientation and mobility specialist for the DOD, in Tokyo, Japan. But what I would learn is that I had students in Japan, Okinawa, South Korea and Guam. So I got to do the distance consultation, before distance consultation became a thing.

What’s it like working in Japan?

Kassy:
I have so many questions about that. First, you mentioned that you apply for the Department of Defense school system. And I had always been curious about that like, how does that work? That sounds amazing. So for those of you guys who don't know that that exists, and you are looking to travel and you have flexibility, I do not have flexibility, which is why we are all here right now. So that's a-okay. But for those of you guys who do have flexibility, it sounds like a fantastic idea. And the fact that your husband supported you in that and you guys then got to go overseas, that in of itself, I want to ask you questions about, what was it like working in Japan? And then I want to talk about the distance part of it.

Katie:
So I think there were two parts of this to me. One is to say that I worked in what was very much an American-like school system. English language, typical American curriculum. The big challenge for me was that I was in this regional position. But instead of being housed in the Regional District Office, because technically I worked across four school districts, I was housed in an elementary school. And so the principal was my boss. And so sometimes she knew fully what was happening with my job, and sometimes she did not. And really, I had two bosses, I had the superintendent at this regional level, and a more local boss and my principal. It was challenging at times, but ultimately very beneficial for me as a TVI because I was one. Technically one of two.

I was very fortunate in that our assistive technology specialist had trained as a TVI and Comms, and so we could have those discussions of how do I approach this, how does this work within the system, but for the most part, I was on my own, and so having to really be knowledgeable about our policies, our procedures, how things should be done, what best practices were, and being able to articulate those to people who have no idea what I am supposed to be doing. So it was a really… It could be challenging at times, but again, very beneficial, because I had to learn how to be a very strong advocate both for myself, and for my families.

I was fortunate enough to make connections with Japanese TVIs, and had an immense time learning from them. They do some things very differently, some things very, very much the same. I think, for me, the O&M part of it was the most interesting, because there are lots of little, little differences. So like, for example, public transit is just ubiquitous in Japan, you've got buses, you have trains, and most of it is fairly well thought out from an orientation and mobility perspective. So you have Braille on the train cars, so you know which car you're getting on in the train. One of my favorite things was that each train station has its own musical jingle. So when you arrive at the station, they play a little piece of music. So hypothetically, in addition to the announcement that you were at this train station, you would have that music to kind of back you up and know where you were. They had Braille in many of the train stations on the stair rails, so that as you came up to the stairs and grabbed the rail, you could read the Braille that told you which platform you were going to. So lots of little things like that. That I don't know, as I would have thought of. But were that oh! that A-ha! moment.

Kassy:
It seems to me that Japanese design is much more thought out than American design just in general. And given the fact that truncated domes originated in Tokyo. There seems to be a lot more emphasis on the community supporting one another no matter who you are over in Japan from what I've seen and heard and read, so I can totally see how you would have those little moments of like, Oh, what a great idea because it really does seem like an inclusive design is more at the forefront of their sphere or their just their paradigm and how they do things. Would you say that that's true?

Katie:
I would say in general, that's true. And there certainly has been… We saw a very big push with that when we were there, because we were there in the lead up to the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, or what was supposed to be the Tokyo 2020 Olympics. So while they did still have some accessibility issues, I do recall, in particular, one time when we were on the train, and there was a notice, and this was in Tokyo, proper, like downtown, not necessarily out outside, you know, in the countryside, that we were approaching a train station without elevators. And so if you had mobility issues, please don't get off at this train station, because you couldn't go anywhere. But with their push to host and ultimately hosting the Olympics, there were a lot of construction projects going on to try to remedy some of those issues. 

How Katie’s work system look like

Kassy:
I could see that as well. Of course, you mentioned that the system that you were in was very Americanized, run by Department of Defense here, the American government. So that makes sense. What did you notice about the direct service times and consults service times? Were they about the same as you would do here? Or are they different?

Katie:
Well, I'm glad you asked that, because they were very different. And that was one of the larger struggles in my position. And I will caveat this and say that it was more unique to my position being a regional person than you would see, perhaps at one of the DOD schools in the US or at one of the DoDEA schools in Europe. Being a regional person, most of my minutes were consult. And the administration pushed that from two perspectives, one being that many of these bases are spread out and vary geographically. So even within Japan, I had three or four bases within two hours of me, but those were the closest bases. It could take me a full day to get to the northernmost and southernmost base to see students.

And so the travel model, for me providing direct in person service was me traveling to the base on Monday, staying three days, and then traveling back on Friday, typically, and that was for assessments, or typically assistive technology troubleshooting. One of my students transition to say, middle school and needed that extra O&M help at the beginning of the school year. And that AT setup, that's when I would travel in person.

A lot of what I did was direct instruction with the special education teacher or case manager sitting there with me on the distance call. And we went through three or four different iterations of distance technology, but I'm there directly, but I'm mostly coaching the teacher or case manager on what's happening. And in a lot of cases, you know, emailing back and forth with them to try to make sure that these things happen. And so it was very much more of a consult setup, which we both know there are pros and cons to.

But again, a lot of it came down to geography and so a lot of it. Some of my other struggles were pushing, or No, I have to see this student in person and here's why. As we all know, assessments. I cannot do an assessment over zoom. I need to be there in person. So I'm going to travel but I'm going to see every other student at that base during this week. And so we're going to make that as beneficial as time efficient as possible.
Kassy:
Did you have to clear it with a boss when he went to a different base?

Katie:
Yes, there was a protocol that I had to follow. And so I could not just decide, oh, it was time for an assessment. I need to travel to XYZ base. The teacher at the base had to have their principal request a visit through the superintendent's office, and then my superintendent, or one of the special education supervisors could approve that and then I would have to make arrangements.

And then we added two or three additional layers during COVID where typically I have had to have permission from the base commander to come on base because we had so many different COVID protocols. So I had to submit paperwork saying, This is why I'm coming. This is why I have to come in person, here's all of the safety precautions I'm going to take. On my way to base here are all the safety precautions. I'm going to take while I am there in your community. And here's how I'm going to safely return home.

How were things like during the pandemic?

Kassy:
Wow, I was wondering how things worked for you in the pandemic, were you overseas during the pandemic?

Katie:
We were and it was, let's go with interesting. So we, like many people, kind of watched this pick up momentum. And I recall very distinctly, I actually was traveling in the weeks leading up to everything shutting down. And I remember commenting to my husband and to my parents. I'm concerned because everyone on the train is masked. But at the same time, I'm not as concerned because everyone on the train is masked and the windows are open. And, they know how to deal with this.

But like most of the schools in the United States, we went to spring break, never came back. Transition to distance learning, which had some bumps for me, as someone who had been doing this for a year already had routines in place. So it was a disruption but not as, maybe, major disruption as some teachers experienced. And the school system took the summer to really work with everyone to figure out how do we get kids back safely.

And so we had one or two schools in places like South Korea and Guam where they could not open safely right on time. But I think by September or October, most of our schools were open and in person doing learning, which then you have this challenge of you have kids in person and you're getting referrals. But how do you do testing or evaluations safely? And then especially for me, how do you get to these students to get this ball rolling when you have different layers of precautions. And so that was the real challenge.

And when I say it was interesting, because we had two layers of COVID protocol going on. So we had the Japanese government because we lived in Japan, we had to follow all of the Japanese government's precautions, recommendations, rules. So for example, you know, we're advised not to use public transit, we were supposed to mask in all public areas inside and outside. And then we had base protocol or US government protocol as well and so we had to follow both of those guidelines. So I think at one point, we were masking indoors and outdoors. And this was in April, we were confined to a one mile radius of our house, and could only leave for, I believe it was essential services. So we could go to the grocery store. We could go say to the convenience store to drop off recycling or pay bills, go to the doctor, and that was pretty much it.

Kassy:
Yeah. And on basis, that much more condensed area? 

Katie:
It was, although that worked out fairly well, because you have everything on base most of the time that you need. So you have the schools, you have the BX which is like your grocery store or your Walmart, you have in our case, the movie theater, the gym, track and field space. Basically you have a small American community on base and so you're all on one team. And you're all working on this protocol. But we're trying to be mindful that it's an active duty military base. And so you have to be ready to go and complete a mission. And so you're trying to prevent anybody active duty from getting sick so. 

Kassy:
That has got to have been such an interesting experience, who have gone there, experienced all of that. So that has got to have been such an interesting experience, who have gone there, experienced all of that. And you mentioned before going to South Korea and Guam and having to do that distance during the pandemic, moving, going to different countries had been really hard.

Katie:
I will stop you there because I actually never made it to South Korea or Guam. So I had a student in Guam when I started, but she had cataracts in both eyes and when she was referred to me, they were getting ready to do surgery on the first eye but they were going to do the second eye later. And she was a kindergartner. And I said, there's no reason to fly me out, do an FBA on this kiddo when we're just going to have to do another one. So wait. And then of course, she moved to the US. My kiddo… and this is maybe a good example of how the pandemic affected things.

I did have a student in South Korea, who was getting ready to transition from middle school to high school, and was due for updated evaluations. But this happened, I was supposed to go April or May of 2020. And obviously, we closed. So all of that planning kind of went out the window, and stayed in touch with his team, as we were online when we came back. And ultimately what we did was a very supervised FBA via distance consultation. So he had, again, very fortunate, the autism specialist in South Korea was a certified TVI. 

Kassy:
Oh, my God. You got really lucky.

Katie:
I did, I did. So what we worked out was that she and I would tag team B evaluation. And so I Skyped in FaceTime in while she did everything, and she and I wrote the report together. The caveat that she was not an orientation and mobility specialist. And that needed to happen in person, as soon as somebody who was certified could get to South Korea in person, because again, that was the odd kind of mismatch where we could travel as US citizens, but South Korea was not allowing non citizens in. So I could travel with extra precautions within Japan, but could not travel, say to Okinawa, or South Korea. And so then you're coming up with these very different strategies to make things work.

Kassy:
I think that's one of the coolest things that came out of the pandemic. And I was really excited the whole time to see it all happen, because as education, you know, we've been really stagnant for a long time. And we a lot of times people, quote, unquote, say like, oh, we were doing things this way, because that's the way we've always done them. And I use air quotes now. And the pandemic did not allow you to do that. They're like, We're shutting the door on that belief system altogether. And we had two choices, we could either rise above and come up with something completely different. Not sure if it's going to work, not sure how efficient it's going to be in the long run. Or we could, you know, allow it to crumble us and the people who rose above it, and came up with unique ideas and solutions have soared. And what I noticed after the pandemic is those of us who just rose above who figured it out, weather the terrain and… it didn't… over the long run, It didn't affect my students negatively, like I'm sure with your students not having an O&M, okay. But you were able to get it done because you were creative. And that's what makes an impactful teacher.

Katie:
Well, I think… I mean, two thoughts. I saw some of my… I think you are absolutely correct. It was a, one of two things. I'm not doing this. And I did see teachers who just, I will not do this, this is not how I work. And then I can do this. I don't know how to do this, but I'll figure this out. And I feel like a lot of the TVIs I worked with fell into that camp of, I'm not entirely sure how this works. But we're gonna figure something out. We're going to be creative. And I really appreciated, especially online, the community of TVIs and O&Ms, who came together and shared ideas and said, I tried this. This worked great. You should try this too or I tried this. It was a disaster don't do this.

Kassy:
Yeah, I felt so much more of a sense of community during that time than even now, and sometimes now I feel lonelier than I did during the pandemic, in my teaching career anyway, because we're not all online and hungry for that connection as much.

Katie:
I would agree with that. And I feel like this is maybe just me talking. But I also feel like there was an increased chance of me working with other teachers. And so general education teachers, education technologists, these people who we typically see in passing or share emails with, all of a sudden we're on a zoom call together and And I get a better idea and appreciation of what your job and what your roles are, and you have a better idea of what I'm doing, and how I'm trying to help the student be successful. And so now we can work together more effectively and more efficiently. We're coming together as a better, more effective team.

Kassy:
100%, I saw that across the board. And I really thought that part of the pandemic was going to continue and it hasn't, so maybe we just need to push for it to happen, again. That co teaching aspect, and being able to drop into a student's, like home with their parents like in their living room. And for me, I think it was also vice versa was really sweet, because my students got to drop into my home with my kids. And they got to know me as a person, a little bit more than I guess they had before. And so our relationships as a whole grew. And I was really grateful for the risk assessment matrix that came out so I knew exactly what to teach and what not to teach and where to go with it. And they gave me some bumpers and some guidelines, but I really loved what came out of the collaborative effort of the pandemic.

Katie:
But no, I'm glad you brought up families, because that was, you know, from a preschool background, you work very closely with families, and then at some point that kind of drops off, unfortunately. And I always try to do that. But during the pandemic, that was something where you're, whether you kind of like it or not, you're forced into working with the families, and you get this very close collaboration, then you're reinforcing those skills. They're not just learning this at school, and then trying to take it home, you can bridge that gap.

Kassy:
Yeah. And then they got to see what we're doing, why we're doing it. And using the same language. If an OT and I want to work on the same thing, and I say, Okay, we're working on ABC, then, or, like, let's say, cane skills, or shoe tying, it's one thing to do it that way, you know, just having a conversation outside of a class. But then having a conversation, when you're actually teaching like actually co teaching, you get to take on the actual language and see how they prompt and things of that nature.

So that was something that was brought up at the symposium last year in person, there's a group in Croatia that's doing a fantastic job with this Mali Dom. And it was a really great reminder that I've done this in the past. But I need to continue it. And I think that something that we can all probably take away from this conversation is, we can continue that collaborative effort and really merging worlds to create a transdisciplinary team, because that's really what they were back in the pandemic, even though we were further away. 

Katie:
Absolutely.

What Katie wanted to accomplish with her doctorate

Kassy:
So now you're back in the United States, you're going for your doctorate! I cannot wait to see what you do with this doctorate level. You're going to be able to put out peer reviewed articles and teach at universities that you want and all that jazz. What is the biggest thing that you want to accomplish with your doctorate in your career?

Katie:
I think a lot of people would say this, but it's bridging that research to practice gap. And doing research that is meaningful for people in the field, things that you can take and use and implement. And give me feedback on this works or it doesn't work, and then work together as a community to really do the research and the work that we need.

Kassy:
I… gosh, I love that so much. What's one area that you are most excited to learn about?

Katie:
Am I allowed to say two?

Kassy:
Yes.

Katie:
I'm being selfish because there are two things here. So first, kind of leading into what will probably be my dissertation. I am… I just finished up a pilot study. I talked a little bit earlier about how in Japan, I had these two bosses, I had a superintendent and a principal. And the principal was the one who was responsible for giving me my performance feedback, which is difficult if you don't have a student at that school. And so for the first year, my performance evaluation was based on my attendance and performance at department meetings. And the fact that I was the lead volunteer for school system for the Special Olympics. And so that got me wondering. Am I the only person here who's running into this challenge of getting meaningful feedback?

And so this was the the first research that I did, or pilot study, and just looked at one, one school district and looked at some of the documents how the process was set up, interviewed the TVIs and comms. And it's not just me, you know, we have administrators and a lot of places. And obviously, this is not a blanket statement. But we have administrators in many places who have a special education background or a general education background. And they're really great at giving us instructional feedback, that pedagogical feedback you did great setting up this lesson, you gave great specific feedback and praise, but they can't tell us how well we're teaching Braille, or how well we're teaching a certain cane skill.

And so at least in this school district, the TVIs and Comms are getting together, and they're giving each other that feedback, which, as we know from the symposium, that's what we need. That's what we like doing. We like learning, we want to learn more and improve our skills. But a lot of times we're depending on each other for that. And so I think that's going to be maybe where my dissertation goes is how can we give that feedback to one another, in a really meaningful and effective way.

And I'm going to pause for just a second and say, selfishly, I will throw in the second thing, I had the opportunity to be a TA, teaching assistant, for the universities in-person cane skills class. And this is something the more that I work on it and work with it this summer, I have questions about how we can make O&M more accessible? How we can bring more people into the field? how we can… you know, because those of us who are own O&Ms and who have gone through this process, we know a lot of it is online now. But a lot of us are coming to this as adults who are in a field who have full time jobs. And so a lot of these programs are online. And we're asking you to give up for six, eight weeks of your summer to come someplace in person. And it works, but it doesn't.

And so I have all of these questions about, you know, we're asking you to give up this time, and a lot of cases move away from your families. I know for me, it was a very unique situation in that I left Japan to go to Portland, Oregon for, you know, six weeks, which emotionally is challenging. And then you throw on the physical rigor of an in-person cane class. So there are those questions of how do we support you when you're away from home and you're away from your typical support community, but then, you know, what can we do to make this a better, more effective process for everybody? Train really, really great O&M specialists who can be certified who can go out and do amazing things and effective lessons. But are there other ways we can do that?

I believe I have shared this with you previously. But my O&M supervisor, actually I met through the online symposium. Oh, so Rebbi Bradkey was my supervisor. And she… I posted whatever in the Facebook group. Hey, I'm in Japan. I'm super excited about this. Because it's not… not like I'm traveling a whole lot for… for PD and Rebby messaged me and said, Hey, I'm getting ready to move to Japan. Yeah, we ended up meeting up and connecting.

Taking a step forward with Katie

Kassy:
Well I have absolutely loved having these conversations with you, Katie. Thank you so much for taking us on your journey, all the way from the United States. And you said Georgia, right. And then back to United States and Japan, showing us what things were like over there. And back here now to your doctorate. I would love to know from you. The same question I ask everybody who comes on our podcast. If you could give one piece of advice to VI specialists to help them take just one step forward to becoming a better teacher, what piece of advice would you give them?

Katie:
I'm tempted to say with all of our talk of collaboration, that you should work as much as possible, transdisciplinarly, with your colleagues, with parents. But what resonated with me in Japan is question that I got once or twice from one of my mentors. That was, don't be afraid to ask yourself, why are we doing this this way? Does it have to be done this way? And stop and think creatively about how you can work with your students. Just because this is the way you've always done it or how people expect it to be done doesn't mean that that's necessarily the best way.

And so that question was posed to me at one point. And it… it resonated, and obviously still does to the point that I had a little post it note on my computer that says. You know, basically think outside the box, think creatively. So I would just encourage people to stop and think, you know, are there other ways we could be doing this?

Kassy:
Now, that is such powerful advice. Doesn't matter how long you've been in the field, whether it's zero years, or 35 years for all of us to really think about why we're doing the things that we're doing, and if there was a better way to do it. Thank you so much for your time and your expertise. I am just so thrilled to have this conversation with you. 

Katie:
Thank you for having me.

Kassy:
Wasn't that one of the most amazing interviews we've ever had? I absolutely love Katie and everything that she stands for. Katie is on the planning committee for the TVI online symposium happening September 21, and 22nd of 2023. Right now we're in the planning phases of that. And the other thing that we are planning for is a webinar that will be all about what's working in the world of TVIs. Specifically, talking about working with students with visual and multiple impairments. We've got three amazing experts coming in to share about 5-10 minute tidbits that will keep your attention that will give you innovative strategies and help you connect to your community at large.

That webinar will be happening July 20, at 8pm, Eastern. So all you need to do is go to alliedindependenceonline.com and you can get more information there. If you want to connect with Katie about working at the Department of Defense, send us an email at theteam@alliedindependenceonline.com and we will connect you to her. And as always take a screenshot of this podcast episode and tag us on Instagram or Facebook. Let us know that you are listening. I'd love to connect with you there. You can find us on social @Alliedindependence. Until we talk again, I hope that you continue to take a step forward every single day to becoming the very best version of yourself.