Do you know that one in three individuals who has a visual impairment is over the age of 65? And yet they often receive the least amount of funding services for that population. Have you ever wondered why the discrepancy and possibly even what we can do about it? And if you're working with visual impairments who are over the age of 65, some challenges to think about and some ways to overcome them? Well, today you are in for a treat, because that is exactly what we are getting into.

In this podcast episode:

• Introduction

• What Anna Has Been Doing

• Visual Impairments on Older People

• Services that Older People Get

• Challenges Faced

• Teaching O&M to Older People

• How Anna Overcome the Challenges Faced

• Typical Day as an O&M

• Outro

Transcript of the Episode:

Introduction

Man, this time of year, I just want to bundle up, put something warm in a cosy cup. Wrap that cosy cup with a sweater, Thank you target, and still walk around outside because it's the best. O&M is such a fun and exciting profession. And even though it is getting colder, that doesn't mean that things really slow down, they just make a little bit of a turn during the winter months. Now I, for 1, am in Texas, so I'm still in a short sleeve shirt. And it's super enjoyable. Our cold comes in waves. It's really warm out this year. But the leaves are actually very fall-like, so I’m a little nervous. Having a little PTSD over here. It's all good.

And on today's episode, we get right into the heart of a topic that if you don't work with adults, you may not be thinking about. Now, if you don't work with adults, I highly suggest you continue to listen and here's why. Because you never know where life is going to take you. You never know who you're going to meet. You never know where you're going to end up. You never know if you're going to one day wake up and decide that it is time to change things up in your life. So even if you aren't working with adults right now, this episode still applies to you.

In this episode, I get to talk with Anna Peskin, who is just the most amazing the sweetest, and her zest for making a difference is just so infectious. It was amazing to sit down and chat with her about her move from Texas to Tennessee, and the new things that she's been doing, learning about and sharing about. If you don't already know Anna, let me tell you a little bit about her. Her bio has changed a little bit since the last time she was on the podcast. As a TVI and an NIU graduate, and I interned at the Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired, and then worked in the Greater Austin area for seven years serving individuals with visual impairments of all ages. She is currently living and working in Chattanooga, Tennessee, as part of a community nonprofit serving the population of people with visual impairments in South East Tennessee and North Georgia.

I think you'll really enjoy this conversation. And two more over if you haven't already. Come join us in the symposium. We will be hosting a webinar on January 13. So come check us out then if you're curious about the symposium we'll be diving deeper into it at the end of that webinar. All right. I will let her take it away.

What Anna Has Been Doing

Kassy:
Hi, Anna, welcome back to the podcast.

Anna: 
Thank you. I am so happy to be back.

Kassy:  
Yeah, so much has gone on and so much has changed. You are on episode 10. That episode for you guys is titled How Not Feeling Prepared to Teach O and M to Students with Multiple Impairments Can Lead to Triumph where we got to talk a lot about what Anna was doing at that time. That release date was also in December. And that's when we are filming this now. So how cool that, here we are again. But talking about something completely different. Today we're going to be talking about owning the Golden Age, and your experiences teaching older individuals O&M. So for those who don't know you yet, can you give a little bit of a background and an update as to what you've been up to, since those of us who knew back then got to talk to you then or listen to you anyway?

Anna:  
Yeah, so a lot has changed. For me, since my first episode on the podcast, I used to work for a public school district, and I worked with school aged kids of all ages. And since this summer, I have actually moved in from Austin, Texas, to Chattanooga, Tennessee, and I've been working for a local nonprofit, and most of my clients at the nonprofit have been older adults, which has served my interest in working with them since much like the students who are multiple impaired, they sometimes tend to get the short end of the stick, and they tend to be underserved. The funding for serving them is very limited. Because like the kids who are, you know, multiple impaired, sadly, they can be seen as Oh, you know, they're old, they're retired, they're not going to school, they're not working, you know, they're not, you know, “contributing to society.” They're seen as having little potential. So they're often overlooked, but they need services, you know, just the same because with them, it often comes down to, you know, the quality of life that they're living after they retired.

Also, when I just recently learned this, but 1/3 of the entire visually impaired population is over 65 years of age. So 1/3 of everyone who's visually impaired, you know, they're older, and they have, you know, certain needs, they're at risk for falls and injuries, and they need to stay active, you know, more than maybe even more so than, you know, healthy young adults. So, you know, I just, I guess I just kind of have this passion and desire for like, you know, rooting for the underdog, and helping those who, you know, society's kind of still overlook.

Visual Impairments on Older People

Kassy: 
I love that about you. That's like one of the soft sides of your personality and always lifting people up. And you mentioned that 1/3 of the population of people with visual impairments are over 65. And what do you think has brought that on? Do you think it's because we're diagnosing more people? Do you think that we are living longer? Or do you think that there are, there's just more prominence of visual impairments happening now?

Anna: 
I think it's all of the above. I mean, we are definitely living longer. And you know, as our bodies age, our eyesight tends to deteriorate along with, you know, the rest of our organs. So, I know, macular degeneration is one of the most prevalent conditions in the older population. But also there are other things like, you know, diabetes can contribute to vision loss, and cataracts. And there are certain eye conditions that are more prevalent in the older population than the younger one. So yeah, it's you know, all of those things that contribute to the growing population of older adults with visual impairments. So chances are, you know, your parents, your grandparents, to be maybe you know, suffering from vision loss, and you may not be aware of it, they may not even be aware of it, which is why it's really important to get older adults screened, you know, really regularly in check for, not just the regular, you know, optamology appointments, but maybe even a low vision specialist appointment, so that they can test for things like colour blindness, and make sure that, you know, they're, they still have depth perception, and you know, things that can make, you know, real difference as they function in and outside of the home.

Kassy: 
That's really interesting. I hadn't thought about older individuals needing low vision appointments as well and then not realising that their vision is deteriorating. We know that for people with RP that they may not recognise it until it's like, a lot. But for older individuals, that's a really good point to stay on that regularly and just make it like a clinical appointment before the emotion and the grief comes into play with everything.

Anna:
Yeah, definitely. I mean, we all want our parents and our grandparents to be, you know, strong and healthy and safe. And vision plays a big part of that, you know. We do know that older adults are more prior to falls and you know, the breaking of bones, and, you know, are they falling because of their like physical weakness, or are they falling because they're missing their lower visual field and they're not able to see you know, the curbs and the level changes and the things that are on the ground or I'd be lacking contrast, like what is playing into those you know, what may come off as like a physical weakness or a physical trait, like maybe it has more to do with a vision loss.

Services that Older People Get

Kassy: 
Right. And that's something that we all need to be taking into consideration. So one thing that I kind of wanted to see your opinion on, are do people with visual impairments who are over 65? Do they tend to get as much services or not as much, and why?

Anna: 
So I can only speak to my own experience on this matter. And this may be different in other countries and in other states. But coming from Texas, where I contracted with Texas Workforce Commission, I also worked with a lot of older individuals. And I know that Texas Workforce Commission has a specific division called the independent living division, where they provide O&M services and independent living services for older adults who are retired and are not going to school or working, because they're trying to maintain their quality of life. And it has never been an issue for me in Texas. But coming to Tennessee, and it being a different state, different funding different politics, I'm just running into so much more red tape. And since I live and work on the border of Tennessee and Georgia, I work with clients from both Tennessee and Georgia, and also seeing how things work in Georgia, it has been really frustrating, because especially now like it being the end of the year, and the transition in the fiscal year, so from September to October, and the state funding is running out of money, and they're like, oh, you know, we can't issue these authority stations, or we're understaffed or, like, you know, no, we're not giving you the money to work with these older people. And it's it's been rough agency has been trying to find O&M for these clients through other grants and other sources and just finding loopholes to work with them, because we realise that they still need services, even though the state is not able to pay for them.

Challenges Faced

Kassy: 
Yeah. And I think that's kind of where I was leading you to, because people who are older individuals, and not “contributing to society”, or they're not going to be working. When we look at entities like the Texas Workforce Commission, a lot of their money comes from, you know, being able to prove that they can turn out employees, right, this is all like vocational training. But when you have another subset outside of that, it gets a little tricky. And I have not on the admin side of that, or the grant writing side, but I can see how it would be, you know, the system, it's not like a person, right, it's just the way that the system is set up to where somebody's lacking in it. Unfortunately, these individuals. What has been working in O&M with them what has been one of the challenges that you've noticed that people who are older individuals face as far as O&M are like travelling goes?

Anna:
So a big part of the challenges has been getting them to overcome their fear, and their limited thinking of just not believing that they can do things not believing that they can still go out there and still function in society; that they could still, you know, travel independently that they can take paratransit places; you know, that they can make it to their doctor's appointments by themselves, self determination has been a huge part in their own training; just getting them to be able to you know, get picked up by paratransit, you know, take the bus there, then get off, make it to the front door of the building, find the front desk, ask for help, and then being guided to their doctor's appointment and then the same back. So yeah, just a lot of it has been, you know, mental overcoming, you know, their mental fears and their mental limitations. And then with some of them, it all kind of still depends on what they need, you know, some of them just need to be able to navigate their house, you know, navigate their driveway to get to their mailbox, some of them just really want to be able to walk around the block and get some exercise and some fresh air. And just seeing them be able to do those things after not doing them for so long has been really great and empowering for them. Like okay, I can walk around the block, you know, maybe I can walk longer than a block next time. Maybe I can get to know my neighbourhood one block at a time.

Kassy:
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of our students with learned helplessness. But in this case, it is people who had been independent before and are losing their independence. And so they are also going through their own stages of grief and the grief cycle. And as we know, it's the grief cycle is not linear. It comes in waves and you never really know what kind of day you're going to be having or where your mindset is going to be. So it's really interesting that you brought up the fact that they have a harder time with self determination. I wouldn't have expected that but it's really good to know.

Anna:
Yeah, and a lot of them also tend to have very overprotective family members that will say, oh, I'll just hold their hand the whole time, I'll just drag them everywhere. But then they become dependent on their children. And then they become like almost like prisoners in their own homes, which is why a lot of older people tend to just become really isolated, especially if they lose their spouse, and they're not able to, you know, get out there and socialise. So a lot of them succumb to depression, and it's just not a good situation.

Teaching O&M to Older People

Kassy:
Yeah, it feels less hopeful than he would like. But luckily, we have people like you and your centre who are reaching out helping them and getting those grant funding, getting the grant funding and doing the best that we can, given the system that we have, because we can't like completely break down the system that would be anarchy. So you have to work within it sometimes. What has been one of like, can you describe what your favourite lesson with somebody who's an older individual might be what that would look like for you guys?

Anna: 
So I think some of my favourite lessons have been helping clients not only conquer, you know, their block and their neighbourhood, but also given them the courage to get out into their community, and maybe take the paratransit to the local YMCA for swim lessons, or for some exercise, to be able to get to the grocery store and be able to navigate their way in and then to the customer service desk, and then ask for personal shopper, so that they're still able to do things for themselves, as well as for their family. And just to really like given them that confidence, like, Okay, I can't drive anymore, you know, I can't walk to the store, or I can't take the regular bus necessarily, but I could still use other options. And I can still you know, socialise, I could still take classes, I could still, you know, take care of my mental and physical health. And I can still live somewhat of a normal life, even if it's on a smaller scale than it used to be.

Kassy: 
Oh, that's really nice. I'd love to share, I know that you're doing a full presentation at the symposium, which I'm so excited about. But I'd love to share for those listening to the podcast, if you have any, like first steps tips, when you first meet somebody who is in their golden age, and let's say that they are having a lack of self determination, and maybe some depression and grief. And you can see their potential, but they're struggling with it at that time, what are some of the first steps that you would do in that scenario to help get them even motivated for your O&M class?

Anna: 
Sure. So the first step would be to take a whole look at them as a person, and consider, you know, all the things that are important, and then being able to travel independently, or navigate their environments independently. So when you're trying to work with an older person, so there are a lot of things to take into account. So their health, any prior physical conditions, just watching how they move and seeing any, like particular, you know, weakness in their body, just really being familiar with any health conditions that they have, and what the repercussions of those conditions may be on their travels. So like someone with arthritis, you know, like, where do they have pain, would they be able to be used a regular cane, so just taking like a whole look at them as a person and considering all those things. And then having them take an honest look at themselves and saying like, Okay, so these are the challenges that I have, but what can I do so, and you can start small, like, they can navigate from, you know, their bedroom, to the closet to the bathroom, to the front door to the end of their driveway, you know, to the end of the block. So really think, little doable steps and then building their confidence little by little. And in the end that can really add up to a lot.

Kassy: 
Oh, that's awesome. I mean, that's not the way that we do everything, just taking one step at a time. And then you look back and you're like, wow, I've come so far.

Anna: 
One of the challenges I also found while working in rural Tennessee in Georgia, is that a lot of my clients don't have sidewalks, and they may live out in the country. And it may not be safe for them to walk down their street because the roads are narrow and there are steep drop offs on both sides. So it's really just being creative and thinking about like okay, well what can you do? You know, is it possible for you to walk around your property because a lot of them have a lot of acreage. Can you walk around your backyard? Can you garden in your backyard? Can you, you know, take flaps around your living room? Can you just walk up and down your driveway? So just finding those spaces to work with them and figuring out what they can do? You know, how can they still be healthy and mobile, and you know, kind of maintain their health and their standard of life.

Kassy: 
Yeah, and you've mentioned a lot about socialisation, too, I don't want to forget that piece. Being out in the rural area, and that can probably also be a challenge with people who rely on other people to drive them places after they can no longer drive. So I think it's really incredible that you are focusing in this area and making such an impact on their lives and teaching in Tennessee and Georgia, like, how fun they get to learn about all those different systems. And it's so different from where you were before.

Anna:
It is! it is so different. I went from working in the city to in the country. It's definitely been a learning curve for me. So yeah, it's interesting, and it's definitely challenging. And it's forcing me to think, you know, way outside the box and be way more creative than I would have had to before.

How Anna Overcome the Challenges Faced

Kassy: 
Right. And one thing that I really like is how you went, and you took this step, and I don't know the whole story behind it. But you now have a different environment that you're teaching in a completely different system that you're getting paid from and have to follow their rules, and different caseload level, I think sometimes we can get stuck in like, this is what I do and this is how I do it. And then slowly shy away from like, maybe even subconsciously shy away from a different kind of learner or different environments. You know what I mean? Can you pinpoint something in yourself that helped you to overcome those challenges? Or just like changing all of those things?

Anna: 
Yeah, of course. So I worked in the school system for the last, you know, seven years, and it's been fun, and I definitely love the time off and still missed the time off. I'm not gonna lie. But as a true Enneagram seven; I get restless, and I'm always ready for a new adventure. So I was kind of getting like, a little restless and thinking, Okay, what's next? What's something that I can do that's new, and different? And then this job came up, and I'm like, hey, well, it would be kind of cool to work for a nonprofit. And Tennessee is a pretty cool state. I've driven through it before. It's really beautiful. So yeah, just kind of push myself to take a leap of faith. And just, you know, just try it out. Nothing is permanent. So why not? Right. It's a risk, but fairly low risk. And yeah, I'm definitely reaping the rewards that has caused me to learn a lot. One of the things here that still kind of boggles my mind is everyone speaks with like a really heavy southern accent. And they have like, their southern phrases, like one of my co workers always says, like, Oh, my stars. Where am I? So yeah, sometimes they still can't believe that I'm here. And it's been like six months? Yeah, I'm really liking it. I'm learning a lot. It's very different than almost every way. But it's a great experience. And I'm sure you know, if I ever do go back to a school system or any other, you know, type of more structured, I guess, environment, I will bring a lot of new knowledge with me.

Typical Day As an O&M

Kassy: 
Yeah, that's so cool. Okay, I actually want to ask you this one question, because you just mentioned structured environment. And I do want to be conscientious of everybody's time, but can you share what, since you work for a nonprofit now? What does your day typically look like as an O&M. Can I ask?

Anna: 
Yeah, so in a way, I'm still kind of an itinerant. I do have an office at our centre. But I also drive to where my clients are. So some of my clients, I go out to them, some of my clients come into the centre. I'm also contracted out to school districts. So there are school districts in the country who have like, you know, one or two VI students, so they don't have their own O&M. So they contract me. So I still get to work with some school aged kids, which is really nice. But yeah, so I'm either you know, at the office, and there's definitely a lot more paperwork because I'm, I feel like my hands are in so many more pots, like so many different funding sources. And I have clients who are from the state clients who are from our grants. I have young clients, old clients, most of them are older. But yeah, it's just everyday still different. So I still get to have you know, that varied schedule of an itinerant O&M, which I love because I don't see myself ever like having an office job and working a regular nine to five in a single place. I still get to drive around and go to different places and see different people and work in different environments. So it's a lot less structured, but also like don't have the structure of having like a caseload. And seeing the same kids every week, because I don't see the same clients every week because like if their funding runs out, we have to wait until we get more funding, which is also very frustrating. So there is that lack of continuance for some of them. So yeah, it’s different.

Kassy: 
That sounds different. It sounds really cool. It sounds like like the best of the O&M worlds in some ways I was describing to. I'm like, I love this part of my life. And I now go walking with my neighbour almost every morning. And it's like starting your day off with happy hour, but I was sharing with her that O&M’s were like a very unique bunch, because we don't really want to talk to people all day. And we don't really want people to know where we are all day. Like, we don't need that level. So that part of it sounds like every day, you could have a set plan for your schedule, but you never know exactly what's going to happen. But it does sound like yeah, the funding aspect of it. That part could definitely be used later on in your life in a way that you don't know yet. And sounds really interesting.

Anna: 
Yeah. Also, with the older population, you have to be really flexible, because they do tend to cancel on you more often. Because they don't necessarily want to be outside in the cold. And it is a little colder here than in Texas. So on some cold mornings, it's like, oh, no, I don't want to go walking today. Or if they're not feeling well that day, or no, if something happens. So just their health and they are, you know, the way that their bodies react to the weather is something that I need to work my schedule around.

Kassy: 
That's really interesting, too. How do you fit that in? Or do you just have time times set aside for makeup lessons or something of that nature?

Anna:
Yeah, I mean, luckily, my schedule is still flexible enough where I can reschedule them at a later time. So so far, that has not been an issue. Although if they do cancel last minute, like all of a sudden, it may free up my whole day, which is also not bad. Yeah, sometimes I have to drive like up to an hour to see certain clients who live out in the country.

Outro

Kassy:   
Gotcha. This has been so fun and informative. Thank you so much for sitting down with us. Anna, was there anything else that you want to just share with our listeners about what you're doing? Before we plug your presentation one more time.

Anna:  
I think we can just plug my presentation. And I would encourage everyone to come on and listen to it. And watch it is it'll be definitely way more in depth and informative on how to you know, evaluate the needs of your older clients and the best way to work with them.

Kassy:  
Right. And Anna will be presenting live at this symposium. And I'm really excited for this presentation. I think it's something that's so needed, not only for those who are working with this population, but because there's not that much information out for O&Ms working with older individuals. So if you ever plan on working with older individuals, you will want this information. And you never know what's gonna happen. I'm sure Anna, like a year ago, you weren't like, in a year, I'll be working with this population, and I'll become an expert in it. And here you are. So you guys, you never know what's going to happen. And this information just, it's not Google playable. It's not just out there. Or when you need it, you need to get it now. Put it in your brain pan, assimilate it to what you're doing, and then start to really look outside of the box. If and when those clients do come to you. Yeah, definitely. Thank you, Anna. It's been so nice to connecting with you.

Anna:  
You as well. So good to see your face and hear your voice even though I do listen to the podcast.

Kassy:  
Good. I'm glad. I never really know. Sometimes I’m like, do they care about this? I don't know 

Anna:  
The podcast is great!

Kassy:  
Thank you. All right, friends. Well, everybody go sign up for the symposium if you haven't already. And if you are come join us in the Facebook group, because we will be chatting about Anna's presentation in there. All right. Talk to you all soon. 

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