One of the really interesting things about transitioning into your adult wife or post secondary life are how many challenges end up going up that you can't fully anticipate. Now, whether it's because of the different restrictions because the lockdown, or just the fact that it's just a really challenging time, we can all use a little bit of support guiding our students through that time. That's exactly what we're going to talk about today on this podcast episode with Dr. Nick Casias. Yes, he's back again and his associate is Hangameh Aubuchon.

In this podcast episode:

• Introduction

• Who is Dr. Nicholas Casias and Hangameh Aubuchon

• What Issues Students are Facing During Transition

• Accessibility

• Timeline of Introducing the Transitions

• Who Can Access the Modules

• The Current Stage of the Project

• Where to Contact Nic and Hangameh

• Taking a Step Forward

• Outro

Transcript of the Episode:

Introduction

Welcome back to the podcast friend, the symposium is coming up so soon, January 26, through 28th and I cannot wait to see you there. We have live presentations happening from 1pm to a little after 7pm, eastern standard time each day. And these will be on zooms, we literally click a button there and zoom meetings, so you can chat with your friends at the same time. Or you can keep the chat closed, that's also fine too. We also have a lively Facebook group that I am loving right now, you have to go in and see what everybody is up to. And if you registered during early bird registration or regular registration, you also get these amazing bonus presentations that you can watch at any time to supplement the learning that you're doing at the symposium. These are available in a separate section in your portal. So you can go to the symposium part and then you should also be able to get your bonus presentations in another section in your professional development portal library.

And let's be real here, transitioning in any stage of our life is not easy. To transition out of high school, into your adult life is one of the biggest transitions you will make in your life. This isn't a time where so many people fail. Whether we went to college or not, I'm sure we can all think back and remember somebody that we know who didn't do so well, simply because they were not fully prepared. When you think about our students, and all of the extra skills that they need to be directly taught in order to succeed in their post secondary life. Well, that can feel a little overwhelming and even though we start transitions here, at least in the US at the age about 14, that doesn't always give us enough time unless we are very diligent with it and we have a really, really good plan. 

And the pandemic just threw all of that up in the air. The other day, I share more about this story in the podcast episode you're about to listen to but I went to a school, a local community college with my student and we had to go through so much bureaucracy just to be like on campus. Whereas before we could literally just show up, walk around, and nobody would question us it would have been fine. Even just showing up to campus to give a student a taste of look, his classrooms are small enough for you to succeed. Look, this area is lit well enough for you to be able to walk around.

Even just being able to do that these days is more difficult along with everything else but don't you worry friend, don't you worry, Dr. Nick, Casias and his associate Hangameh may have are in the process of developing online modules. Think of like an online course it sounds like that will help your students transition into their post secondary lives with greater ease and to give you a framework on how to do it.

In this episode, we dive into the purpose of those modules and who they are for and also give you a way for you to reach out to them at the very end of the episode. Those links are also down below in the show notes so you can go grab them at any time.

Let me introduce you to your new friends. Hangameh Aubuchon is a TVI, O&M with Poway Unified School District. In our current position, she serves visually impaired school aged students from 3 to 22. In the North County area. Some of our students have additional disabilities to their visual impairment as well. As a 2012 graduate from California State University Los Angeles with a Masters of Arts in special education and the California clinical Rehabilitative Services credential in orientation mobility. She has extensive experience, student teaching and training and evaluating people with visual impairments of diverse populations. She's also ACVREP certified while completing her Master's she served as an orientation and mobility student teacher at several Los Angeles County Office of Education and Long Beach Unified School District school sites. And she completed her TVI credential through Portland State University and cleared her California credential through San Francisco State University/ucsd extension.

Dr. Nick Casias serves as Assistant Professor in the orientation and mobility programme in the Division of special education and counseling. Dr. Casias is a certified orientation and mobility specialist and holds a doctorate in educational leadership from the University of LaVerne. His dissertation on the roles and responsibilities of paraprofessionals, who work with students with visual impairments in public schools, has been used as a framework for professional development for O&M practitioners in school settings, and pre-service training in University personnel preparation. 

He's the board president of the Southern California Association of orientation and mobility specialists and is engaged with local, regional and national issues in the open-end field. Dr. Casias has extensive K through 12 Public School experience as an o&m specialist and has held a clinical Rehabilitative Services credential in orientation and mobility since 2011. In addition to his work with K through 12 students. Dr. Casias has experience as a clinical supervisor for omm credentials candidates at both Portland State University and Cal State LA.

Can't wait for you to dive into this amazing conversation. Remember, no matter where… and remember, no matter when you're listening to this, you can dive in right now and either help them get the programme started by providing your input OR go ahead and take the modules. Right, let's take it to the show.

Who is Dr. Nicholas Casias and Hangameh Aubuchon

Kassy:
Welcome to the podcast, Nicholas and Hangameh. It's so nice to have you guys here. All right, so we've got two people as guests today. Nick… Dr. Casias, will you tell our audience a little bit about yourself? And for those of you guys who don't know, Nick's been on the podcast before he was on episode 74 talking about teaching O&M during a pandemic, we're so glad to have you back and yeah, I'll let you just take it away.

Nic: 
Thanks again. Kass. Thank you for joining me, you know, I'm always excited to talk about O&M. And just to remind your audience, I'm a certified orientation mobility specialist. And I'm currently serving as both coordinator and assistant professor in the O&M specialist training programme at Cal State University, Los Angeles. And I come to you today not as a practitioner, but more as a researcher with an emphasis or focus on transition skills for orientation and mobility specialists and their students. At a later point, I look forward to discussing this really exciting project. It's called Transition to Independence. It involves a wonderful certified orientation mobility specialist and credential teacher of the visually impaired, who we are going to meet in just a second, who is supporting me in this endeavor. So thank you again for the opportunity to talk O&M, Kassy.

Kassy:  
Always. It's always just such a joy every time we get to collaborate on anything. It's so fun, because you just bring such a really… last time we talked about, you know, leadership through servitude, but you also are always so excited about what you do. And I love that and I love chatting with you. So thank you for being here. And Ms. Hangameh, will you introduce yourself to our audience because I don't even really know you very well.

Hangameh:
Yes, my name is Hangameh Aubuchon, As Nick said, Thank you, Kassy, also for the opportunity, certified orientation mobility specialist and a teacher for the visually impaired in San Diego, California. I've been practicing since 2012. A graduate of California State University of Los Angeles where Nick is teaching and I work for the local school district here in San Diego as a dolt credential teacher. Absolutely love orientation mobility. And I'm super excited to talk about this opportunity of transitioning students in college. So, yeah, super excited. Thanks for this opportunity.

What Issues Students are Facing During Transition

Kassy: 
Oh, gosh, yeah, we're so glad to have you. So you guys are hosting a bonus presentation during the symposium, which will be really exciting for people to be able to take at their own leisure, and then they can come into the Facebook group and share and we can chit chat there some more. But I want to get a little bit of a behind the scenes, a look at the students, and what issues they were facing transitioning into adult life.

Hangameh:
So a lot of our students after graduating high school and going into college… very nervous, they're very nervous. Because you know, going on to a ginormous campus, obviously, after high… I mean, some high schools are pretty large, but going into a college campus can be really frightening for some of these students, because it's just an unknown space. So, you know, having that in mind and working with students from high school and kind of seeing how, you know, they work out in the real world, Nick, and I thought it would be a great idea to come up with a fun way, a educational way, an easy way, or somewhat easy for our students to be able to have the opportunity to be like other students and access college campuses. So we can talk a little bit more about that a little bit later. But just different opportunities and different ways that the students can access the campus I think is really, really important. Obviously, every student is different. Two students can have the same visual impairment, but they can be completely different. So we also have, you know, keep that in mind. But yeah, Nick, I don't know if you want to add anything to that.

Nic:
Hangameh it’s alright, you know. She's a practitioner in the field currently. So she's working with the students as we speak, you know, through global pandemic, which a large percentage of your audience is as well, you know, because what I was able to observe, again, more from the side view of a researcher who's not currently practicing in the field. I am always observing the impact that the pandemic placed upon traditional instructional approaches towards transitioning to a college campus, you know, typically the O&Ms.

They would take the student to the junior college within the, you know, geographic region, you get to expose them to some of the pertinent areas on campus, maybe peek into a classroom, or an office of students support are typically on a campus and just kind of give them a general overview. But with the pandemic, and everyone transitioning to distance learning modality that really impacted negatively students' access to practicing their transition skills, and to getting some of the fundamental experiences necessary to facilitate a successful transition.

So just like many practitioners in the field, probably Hangemeh included, I had started looking outside the box and looking at instructional approaches, through like a distance consultation model, about how we could supplement and supplant some of the instruction that is currently being impacted. Depending on the situation, just watching my student teachers at the university, multiple instances, just this semester, just the school year, there's been this interruption in the continuity of instruction, a student gets potentially exposed, a teacher gets potentially exposed, and they revert or pivot from The Face to Face mode of instruction they were providing to one week, sometimes two weeks of distance consultation and what are you supposed to do if you were working on transition based skills, do put it on pause and say, well pick this up when we get back?

Well, the hope is that these modules could potentially be a resource that maybe when instances like that occur, or maybe during the whole time, while they're working on that college campus or working on the functional gains goes, they can also be accessing these modules that we're hoping will have some resources, information, and maybe some facilitated experiences that will serve them. That's kind of where we're at. Again, I'm just so excited about it. Because having Hangameh on the team, I don't just get to have my own head in the process. I get someone who's there doing it, and can really attest to whether it's practical, whether it's functional, and whether it's gonna work. And that's always… I'm super grateful for Hangameh in regards to that.
Hangameh:
Thank you, Nick. Yeah, I just to add to that. I think, yes, the global pandemic has been very different. And for our students, you know, at least in my district, I had the opportunity to see my students in person, but for those who were distance learning, I gotta tell you, it was really hard teaching orientation, mobility and, you know, just imagining having to train students on a college campus virtually right Now, it's just I mean, it's challenging. And I know a lot of the parents of my students, some of them actually chose not to do distance learning and just wait until we come back in person. So yes, it's… I think these modules will really, really, you know, be eye opening or, you know, just give hope to those who decide to transition into college and just know that they all have the same opportunities, just like the other students to be able to access college campuses and whatnot.

Accessibility

Kassy: 
Amazing. Thank you. So you guys both talked about challenges that people have coming into school or into a university, and how the pandemic has really shifted what is actually even accessible, right? Because you can't just walk onto a college campus anymore. I tried to do that. The other day, I did exactly what you just called out that I took my student, I was like, you know, what would be a great place, he wanted to go to a vending machine. And I was like, I know exactly where we're going. There's a mall here that they converted into a local community college. And part of it, it still looks and feels exactly like the mall.

I was like, I know that they have vending machines there, we're just going to like, dive in. And I'm going to surprise you with this but we got there. And there was a huge sign that said, Do not enter, you have to call their resource center, you have to be screened and then basically, now you can't just walk around, they want to take you on a tour, they want to know exactly who's coming in the building, who's leaving when they were there and if you're not somebody who goes to that school, it's pretty much still locked down. Luckily, we were able to talk to them and like, let them know what exactly we were doing. And it turned out to be really a good time. But that was just one tiny challenge that we faced that we had to face, Okay, there's the sign here. Who do we call? What paperwork do we now need to give them? Are you guys finding that situation for universities where you guys are as well?

Hangameh:
I'd say I think that's all around even, you know, local school districts. I mean, yeah, malls, you know, stores, things like that. I think it also depends on how bad the area that you're living is. But yeah, I think all around, all over United States or all over the world, I think we're all experiencing the same thing. But yes, for someone who's visually impaired, that's really hard. If they're, you know, Braille learner, how are they supposed to be reading the sign that's on the window that says, please call this number and do this and that. So I think, you know, we're all experiencing this around the world. And I don't know, Nick at Cal State LA, how it is over there. But I would say my, the grocery stores around this area here in San Diego, it was a lot worse before, I think it's getting better. But yeah, they have signs out on their window saying, for example, Please wear a mask or don't come if there's more than five people and things like that. So I think that would be really difficult for someone who's visually impaired to access those posters, you know, in writing. So I think these modules and our focus would be good for situations like that, Nick, how's it over at Cal State LA?

Nic:
I can speak to two things with Cal State LA, we used to have some very… they were established. And we had established affiliations and agreements with different school districts and agencies and the VA whatnot. And you know, collectively, both institutions have to come up with new parameters about what can and can't be done, when it can be done.

Even with our student teachers and with our master teachers, gone are the days of just saying, Hey, do you want to be a master teacher? We'll send a student there on Monday, you know, there's so much red tape and paperwork, administrative hurdles to clear and I'm sure that impacts a practitioner who I remember, you know, not too long ago, hopping in the car and going to wherever our heart's content desired and just say, Hey, we're here, we want to check it out!  You know, gone are those days, but the modules addressed that in some capacity in that we're hoping that they will assist both O&M’s and their students in taking advantage of existing framework of services and resources that are typically available on a college campus. 

And when I say that I'm talking about support services for individual disabilities, that's like usually like that the CSU, the Cal State LA system, and oh, Kassy, you're out there in Texas. But in Cal State LA, we have the CSU we have the UC system. And that makes up you know, 40 plus schools, major institutions across the state and every single one is going to have a Office for Students with Disabilities support service center and just making the connection or contact with that office prior to trying to show up on campus to do an instruction that can facilitate the opening of a lot of the doors for practitioners in the field. 

And other example of like existing framework or services when these universities had to pivot they transition to virtual open houses, orientations, audio and digital guided tours, they beefed up some other directories with you know, more multimedia based components, many had to create digital maps, and whatnot. And we're trying to get practitioners and students to get in the mindset of locating and utilizing these resources, if they're in a position where they can't get the physical access to the campus, because it's a start, you know, and but in many respects until things get a little more settled, from a pandemic standpoint, gone are the days of just, you know, showing up and peeking around. They want to know what who you are, what you're doing, and you need to have nine levels of clearance to do so.

Timeline of Introducing the Transitions

Kassy: 
Yeah, I was surprised about that. Just given that we're also in Texas. And so sometimes, it doesn't really seem like, I can go to the grocery store with more than five people, I guess, I've never tried, since the pandemic started. But so within the modules that you guys have, I actually have a few questions. And I'll let you guys figure out how much detail you want to go into. But we already talked about the ultimate goal of them. But really, at what age would the O&M or the VI teacher begin to introduce these to the student themselves? Like, before you get to college? Is is the summer before college? Is this like at the age of 14 to 16? What are we looking at?

Nic:
That's a good question. I know Hangameh may have some comments on it as well. I'm gonna jump in and say that I think she's gonna provide a perspective that comes from a practitioner, so I'm hoping I'm thinking she might say it really depends on the student and where they are. They're in their own skills. But Hangameh, go ahead. I don't want to speak for you.

Hangameh:
So yeah, you know, speaking from experience of what I have done in the past, with my students who, you know, I, before the pandemic, I was taking them over to college campuses.Iit was typically 10th grade, maybe 11th grade, just so that they can get used to the campus, they can speak to others on campus, they can go to the different offices and you know, ask different questions, figure out what they need to do before going to college, things like that. So generally speaking, yes. Before I would say a year or two before attending college, some students don't know where they want to go. So yes, I would probably, you know, even if they didn't know what college they wanted to go to. I would take them to a local college that wasn't too far from the school that they were attending. But you know, during our lessons, we would typically go online and look at their campus map. And if they needed it to be tactile. We would, you know, we would work on it to make it tactile for them, and talk about the different departments and the gazillion classes that they have on campus and what they offer and how many students could be in each class and things like that. So generally speaking, yes, I would typically take them about a year or two before attending college. 

Kassy:
Yeah. And so you would take them, you would take the modules, when do you start implementing those? 

Hangameh:
Yeah, about the same time just so that we're on, you know, they're able to access the modules, same time that they're able to access? The, you know, in person, it's available in person.

Who Can Access the Modules

Kassy:
Yes. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. And so with them, of course, not everybody is going to go to college in California. Are these available only to people in California right now? What are you looking at as far as who can access these modules that you've been talking about?

Nic:
I think I want to answer this question with Hangameh support just by highlighting what the focus of the modules are, because they are going to focus on transferable or generalizable skills and concepts. And while these type of concepts that we'll highlight in just one second, will absolutely lend itself towards the development of independent travel on a college campus. To your point Kassy, this set of skills are also transferable or generalizable to employment to a higher level of independence out there in the community. I think it's like life beyond school in secondary education. So that does include cause that does include employment and other areas of pursuit but like route planning to address problems of accessibility and safety. That's one of the focus of the modules, construction of cognitive maps using a range of media tools and information, conceptual knowledge of campus layout, that very cold specific but it's for landmarking and orientation purposes.

So one could take those skills and generalize them to their employment site or something, it doesn't happen yet. It's not just gonna be for campus in many respects and then we're also looking at this is more of a campus based identification on location of key offices, you know, typically like financial aid registrar, the library, transportation hub, the technology lab, super important one the food services, public safety, and then another transferable that I think goes beyond just college soliciting assistance and information from the public because sometimes it is necessary to complete orientation mobility specific goals, and it's another it's an actual skill. It's a skill to possess and to have at your disposal. When you need it, and this is where we're hoping the modules will take the focal point, or these are the focal point of the modules.

Hangameh:
I think for our students, or, you know, once they finish high school, these are skills that they've been learning throughout their orientation and mobility goals, since they've started orientation mobility. So I think it's one step higher than what they were working on before. So for example, soliciting assistance, I mean, they were doing that on their school campus. So it's just learning how to do it and you know, college or learning how to do it in a workspace and then just using those skills that they've learned before, I think the cognitive mapping is another thing just in life, they need to know how to get around their house and their, you know, their school campus that they were at before. So I think the focus of these modules are just a continuation of what they've been learning previously in school or an orientation mobility.

The Current Stage of the Project

Kassy: 
Right, and how far along are you guys right now with this amazing project? What stage are you at with it?

Nic:
We're like in the, what I call it the content curation phase. In that we have the framework of the focus for that each individual module, and we're sifting through a considerable amount of resources that we're aware of and trying to pick what I guess what we think are going to be the most pertinent and the most transferable. Like, for example, for the conceptual knowledge of campus layouts, we have access to T-maps, which is through Lighthouse for the Blind in northern San Francisco. And it's like a tool to generate tactile street maps. And it's something that they can, it's an automated production process. And they can address college campuses, which have this unique feature known as service roads, which are essentially pathways on a college campus, that it's a shared space between both vehicles and pedestrians. It's not something typical outside of like a college campus, I think you might have it like an amusement park or something of that nature. But having the T-map component within the content of that module is one example of the content curation that we're at.

So we're still sifting through resources and at a later point, I think Hangameh and I are gonna give a quick pitch to have your audience potentially contribute to providing future or further resources or instructional approaches that we could maybe highlight, because I can tell you, the more I talk to people, the more I realize how little I know, and how creative and resilient, you know, the current O&Ms out there are. It's always humbling.

Kassy:
Absolutely. So when would that point be like, when can we get our hands on this stuff?

Hangameh:
I think it's a work in progress. So we're in the beginning stages of it, Nick and I are, you know, trying to pick people's brains and see what ideas they have, just like he said, and I think it's also great hearing from others who have recently graduated, people have been in the field, you know, for a long time and things like that, just so that we have a better idea of what others out in the community, or even their students think would benefit them or, you know, what they would like to see as far as transitioning whether it's working at a job or going to college and things like that. So it's a work in progress.

Nic:
Yeah, Hangameh’s right. I think if I had to put like semi concrete dates, or I know that, that the latter latter portion of spring, you know, I'm thinking from a semester standpoint, I might want to pilot something, whatever we have and whatever framework we have, and then in a perfect world, at some point in fall of 2022, we would release the first iteration. And I really say like the first version because it will be a continued growth and developmental process. And whatever we're able to release to the public in fall of 2022 is only you know, the first of hopefully many versions as we continue to compile and develop other resources.

Kassy:
Amazing! And just to be clear, because we'll get this question, will it be available to all O&Ms and VI specialists? Okay, he's nodding his head. Yes. 

Nic:
Oh, yeah, online and most importantly, free!

Where to Contact Nic and Hangameh

Kassy: 
Through the grant, which is lovely, while you guys, I want to thank you so much for your time and sharing this new exciting project with us. It's always nice to know a little bit behind the scenes about what people are working on. And for those of you guys who are interested in getting in touch with Dr. Casias or Hangameh, you can do so if you're ready and when they're ready to have you be part of the pilot programme. We want to make sure that we can be a conduit to connect you guys.
Nick, where can they reach out to you and let you know that they are ready or that they would like to participate when you're ready for that.

Nic:
I know that… They can reach out to either myself or Hangameh through social media and through our respective emails. Which we'll share with you at the end, you know, Mine is ncasias2@calstatela.edu. And then I think what we'd like to do and if Hangameh agrees, we actually have like a Google Drive, that individuals can directly contribute a resource or a link to an article, or perhaps a programme that they incorporate. That might be a really interesting pathway for people to immediately contribute to the curation process.

Hangameh:
Yep I agree. My point of contact is I'm on social media as well, on different TVI and O&M pages, I believe Nick is as well, my email I can provide on here or at the bottom of the podcast, if I can put my email as well because it's difficult email. But it's hangamehmousavi@gmail.com and I can provide that in writing later on.

Where to Contact Nic and Hangameh

Kassy:
Yeah, so you guys will drop. On the bottom in the show notes, we'll put these links to the Google folder, as well as Dr. Casias, his email address, and Hangameh’s email address. If in the event that you're listening to this, at any point, you're like, Wow, that really sparks my interest, I would either a like to take this, if you're listening to it in 2022, after they've already released them or if you are a go getter, and you're super innovative and want to help pilot it, and you want to just connect with them, feel free to do so.
And then at some point, whenever they are ready, look for a link at the bottom of one of our emails. So no pressure, no pressure you do. But we now have over 100 people who are going to be waiting for this email. So all right, you guys.

Well, it's the end of the episode and I want to ask each of you guys for your professional opinion. As always, I like to end on a high note, just a reminder that as VI specialists and O&Ms we don't have to be perfect all the time. We don't have to know everything all the time. The key to making progress is always just to take one step forward every day. So Hangameh, I'll ask you first. If you had to give like your best friend, you're sitting down for coffee, and they were like, Hey, I'm having a hard time. I want to be my best. O&M, VI my best self? How can I do that? What would be your number one tip for them to be able to take a step forward?

Hangameh:
Well, if they're not in the programme already, I would highly recommend they reach out to different colleges around them to see if there is availability and opening because I have to say oh, and I'm in TVI, the best fields ever. And I look forward to going to work every day. So I highly recommend just reaching out to your local school. Also just always have a smile on your face. And every day is a new day in our field. And whatever you do, you're going to be good at

Kassy:
Yeah, nice! What about you Nick? 

Nic:
For me even longer a bit more I realized the less I know. And that's okay. Because the best resource is connecting with others of like mine who are focused on serving those with visual impairments. And it's okay to ask for help. I'm thankful that I met Kassy, that I met Hangameh and then I've had the opportunity to pick their brain in moments where I'm struggling and vice versa. And it's only to the benefit of my students because you don't have to know it all you just have to be willing to learn and grow.

Kassy:
Amazing. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast. I look forward to tracking your progress with this amazing project and helping you guys to be a conduit to get amazing, O&M's and VI specialists into it and through it. So that way we can all just make the world a better place. Thank you!

Nic:
Thank you!

Outro

You know that feeling when you've been rushing around all day. Your kids need food your students need to be scheduled. It's five minutes before your next lesson, and you have no plans. Teaching during a pandemic has had many challenges. Wouldn't you agree? One of which being it takes so much longer to plan for a remote O&M lesson, then he did to plan for a face to face lesson. But that's not a problem anymore because my friend we have got you covered. Your Allied Independence community stepped up. And we've bundled together eight remote O&M lesson plans that can be taught virtually or distance all created by your community and customizable to your individual students unique needs in five minutes or less. You want ‘em? I know you do. All you have to do is go to Allied Independence online.com forward slash remote R E M O T E and grab your copy. Eight free O&M lesson plans so you can start spending your time doing what you do best and that my friend is teaching.