Topics:

blind, English learners, blindness, teacher, students, work, disabilities, identity, earners, research, support, teach, system, visual impairments, collaborate, multilingual

Welcome back to the podcast, my friends! In this episode, accompany us as we delve into a conversation with Conchita Hernandez, the visionary behind METAS (Mentoring, Engaging, and Teaching All Students), a non-profit organization that trains educators in Latin America that work with blind or low-vision students and other disabilities. Let us all gain insights into creating an inclusive classroom that embraces linguistic diversity and visual challenges not as hindrances, but as wellsprings of resilience and innovation.

In this podcast episode:

• Who is Conchita Hernandez?

• How did she get into the field of visual impairments?

• One of the challenges that she faced as a TVI in DC with a visual impairment

• Her collaboration strategies with people who who didn’t see TVI's value

• Navigating challenges and change in education during post-COVID

• METAS (Mentoring, Engaging in Teaching All Students)

• How does creating a sense of identity become empowering?

Transcript of the Episode:

Did you know that about 10% of our public school students in the United States are English learners or multilingual students? That number is growing and it's growing rapidly. As VI specialists, it's another area that we weren't taught about in our teacher trainings. And oftentimes, we struggled to know how to work with this population in their families. But there are ways that we can overcome that obstacle. And now that we have it in our viewpoint and we can start to see the impact that this is having on our learners lives, we can take those steps forward in this amazing, hilarious, very lighthearted interview with powerhouse, Dr. Conchita Hernandez. We dive into how she got into this, why it really matters and how she has been able to make a difference in the lives of these learners and these people. And it all started with herself and with her challenging the status quo and really looking at what wasn't available and what's really needed in the world and ultimately taking one step forward every day.

Let me tell you about my new friend because I think she's one that was people. Dr. Maria Conchita Hernandez Legorreta was born in Mexico and grew up in California. She advocates for the rights of blind children and their parents in the public school setting in the United States and abroad through the lens of intersectionality focusing on social justice. Conchita received her bachelor's degree from St. Mary's College in California, majoring in International Studies Spanish, and History. She then went on to Louisiana Tech University where she received her master's in teaching with the focus on teaching blind students as well. She earned her master's certificate in working with deaf blind students from Northern Illinois University.

Conchita received a doctoral degree in special education from George Washington University. She is a Biden presidential appointee to the National Board for Education Sciences, I mean no big deal. She has been published in Future Reflections and Rooted in Rights. Conchita keeps up with research in special education and serves as a peer reviewer on the Journal of Blindness Innovation and Research. She conducts workshops for best practices for educators and professionals in the field of disability and advocacy in the United States and internationally. Conchita worked in the rehabilitation field in Nebraska, where she set up innovative programming for disabled adults.

We're not even done yet. Conchita is the founder and chair of METAS (Mentoring Engaging and Teaching All Students), a nonprofit organization that trains educators in Latin America that work with blind or low vision students and their disabilities. In this role, she engages lawmakers and policy discussions around people with disabilities and inclusion. She's also the co-founder of National Coalition of Latinx with Disabilities that seeks to amplify the voices of disabled Latinx in the disability rights movement. Currently, Conchita works as the Maryland Blind and Low Vision Specialist. She strives to be a voice for change for educators, professionals and advocates to make full inclusion a reality for people with disabilities in Latin America. Talk about a powerhouse. And somehow this woman puts her clothes on the same way we do. Not really sure how she does it. Without further ado, let's hop into this amazing conversation.

Who is Conchita Hernandez?

Kassy

Welcome Conchita to our podcast. I told you before the recording, but I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you so much for submitting your presentation application for the TVI online symposium. I'm really looking forward to that presentation. But today I really am so curious about you, and the mission that you stand for and how you got to where you are. So for our audience who may not know you, would you please introduce yourself?

Conchita

Yeah, so I'm Conchita Hernandez, and I have a lot of random role. So I am currently as my job job working through the Maryland School for the Blind and the Maryland State Department of Education, supporting the education of blind students, professionals, educators, parents in the state of Maryland. And then before I was in this role, I was a TVI in the DC public school system, I was a rehab counselor in Nebraska, and I'm originally from California. I grew up in California. I myself was an English learner, I was undocumented going to public school, and kind of all of that entail. So my personal experiences have really led to kind of the way I view education, and the way I view equity, and why I'm really passionate about kind of some of our student populations.

How did she get into the field of visual impairments?

Kassy

I can see where you're coming from without especially having grown up through the system. And watching your family navigate this system, I'm sure had a major impact on you as a child, what got you into the field of visual impairments? Can I ask?

Conchita

Yeah, absolutely. So it did start with that, you know, my parents didn't speak English. I had an IP, and I didn't get the services I should have received. And so I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life. Actually, I was kind of like, I can't really see. So I can't really do stuff. Um, it was really unsure what that was going to look like. So I ended up finding the National Federation of the Blind. And then I got training in Nebraska. And while I was in Nebraska, I had this all these great people and one of them was like, "Are you interested in being a teacher of blind students?" I was like, "Yeah, actually, I don't want kind of the same thing that happened to me to be repeated to other students." And on the spot, my O&M instructor, Jeff Altman was like, "Okay, we're calling them now." And I was like, "Wait, I it's just thought, I'm not sure yet." And so he like talked to the person at the program. And he was like, "Alright, they're ready, like for you to do a tour." And I'm like, I guess this is what I'm doing. And so I got my master's, Louisiana Tech and their TVI program, and the rest is history.

Kassy

Oh, my gosh. The fact that I didn't know and I'm specialist was like, "Oh, you want to do this? I've been waiting to know your specials", and just been waiting for you to slip up and say yes, just to one little sliver of an idea. And now we run.

Conchita

Exactly. Yeah. And it just happened really quickly. But I think it was like exactly what was what was meant to happen. At that time, I thought, I'm gonna be an interpreter, translator, because I don't need to see to do that. I could just kind of use my voice and listen, and I love doing that as well. It's a lot of fun. But I definitely recognize that I had a lot of capacity for a lot more. And I'm glad I had people in my life who pushed me to do that.

One of the challenges as a TVI in DC with a visual impairment

Kassy

Yeah. So what's been one of the challenges that you faced as a TVI in DC with a visual impairment?

Conchita

I think the biggest thing that I think in all of the areas is just people's attitudes, right. So like, I was really lucky that when I was a TVI in DC, I was at one school. So we had back in that time, we had all of our students with visual impairments, they had the option of coming to this public school. So I didn't have you know, the typical things of like having to go from one school to another. But I think it's definitely the attitudes that people have have, like, first of all, wait, how are you doing this helping your students? When you yourself, you know, are blind, low vision? And what does that look like? And I was also really young. So I feel like there's definitely this of like, "Oh, you're so young. What do you know about what you're doing?" I think, with a lot of things, it's it's that collaboration aspect. Like, I think collaboration is so so important. And you touch on it a lot in stuff that you do. And I feel like building those bridges were like, how do you navigate somebody being like, super ableist and telling you maybe something like really bad that you're like, oh, my gosh, I can't stand them. But I have to, like get over that and learn to collaborate with them because it's vital in order for my student to be successful.

Collaboration strategies with individuals who didn’t see TVI's value

Kassy

What were some of the ways that you collaborated with the people who were able to just or didn't see your value as a TVI?

Conchita

I think the first thing to recognize is that we're all ableist like all of us, grow up ableist. And it's something we have to break as we learn and we evolve. And so part of it is giving people grace, like I can have the emotional like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they said that. But then also the compassion of like, they don't know what they don't know. And so it's part of like not holding it against them, and being like, "How can I educate them otherwise?" and the best way to do that is by example, like in that moment, I may not tell them like oh, hey actually, but then kind of working with them, letting them see a social side of me as well. Like I made it intentional. We would do like happy hours with staff and I made it intentional to go If I didn't want to go, because I realized that them seeing me as just another person who also likes to go to happy hour and tell jokes was really important.

And so once kind of getting over that, I'm a big fan of complimenting people on what they're doing well, so really engaging with them on like, I love how your classroom was set up, I love how your classroom management style is going, I'm really here as a support for you, and how can I help you, instead of pointing out all the things they're doing wrong? Because they're already super overwhelmed. And so like, there's definitely things going wrong in the classroom that I observed. But instead of being like, "Well, I really like how your groups are broken up. Can I give you some ideas?" Or how can I come support you in maybe ways that they weren't expecting, so sometimes I would pop into a classroom, and the teacher would have to go make a copy. And I've heard from other people in our fields, like, "Don't do that that's not your job. You're only there for this thing." But I feel like that builds rapport with the teacher. And so I'll be like, "Yep, go, I'll watch your kids for a second." And, and they would go make a copy. And I would, you know, take over the class. And we'd come she'd come back. And we'd be doing a fun lesson or something. And so being able to understand where they're coming from, but they have a lot going on as Janet teachers and how can I support them, even if it's not my job in that particular time. But that's going to build a rapport in order to then me ask them something that they may think is a little bit out of their realm and out of their comfort level.

Kassy

Yeah, it sounds like you and I have this same value system. And I don't ever hide my value system about this, but I believe, you know, you attract more was the bees or flies with honey than vinegar. And what I found in the school system working with teachers is that if you do come at them with vinegar, they might do what you want them to do, when they see you coming, but you leave, they will roll their eyes and go back to what they were doing. Whereas if you can come at it from I mean, we were literally legally labeled support staff. Like that's all. And their jobs are hard. There's a reason about a gen ed teacher, I don't want to do that. That is sounds like so much work and chaos and I can't imagine having to manage the emotions of dozens of little children who have no amygdala, and you're stuck in a room with them all day, every day. All of them. That's a lot.

Conchita

Yeah, exactly. And I think one of the things is I made my support exciting, like, I'm a big believer that if like learning isn't fun and engaging, then it defeats the purpose of learning. And so I feel that way, also with adults. So when I made mine things fun and exciting, then they would come to me and be like, "Oh, my gosh, guess what I did in class today, you'd be so proud." And it becomes them wanting to share the fun and exciting things that they did. And sometimes it was like a something has nothing to do with my kids. And still giving them that like, "Oh my gosh, that's so great. I love that." And sometimes it was like, "Guess what I did I remember that thing you told me. And I included it in the classroom while the child was doing this activity", and giving them the grace of you're gonna do things not perfectly, and that's totally okay. Because I think they have so much pressure to be like, "Am I doing the wrong thing?" And so they would come to me, and and be like, "Hey, I tried this, what do you think?" And maybe, and even if it was like, way off what I would have done or way off what I think is good practice, I have still been like, "I am so glad you did that. That is a wonderful place to start." And giving them their instead of being like, "No, don't ever do that again", but rather giving them that feedback of "I'm so glad you tried something without me there. How about let's go in this direction." I think that's so important.

Challenges in working with administrators

Kassy

I want to point out something that you said because words are so impactful. You specifically said it wasn't something that you would have done. And you mentioned another sentence, also stating you and your perspective. You never said it's something that they did wrong. You never even in this moment, you didn't point blame on anybody else. And if we can start to look at teachers trying and or maybe they're stressed out when they're not trying in the way that we think that they should be trying. It's more of like our perspective and their perspective. Not like you're doing it wrong. I'm also finding that teachers have so much stress from administration. And I don't know what it is this year specifically right now I'm coming up against administrators who I can only imagine that they are super stressed as well. But the way the tone that they're talking to me is very rude. And I can I have so much autonomy when I'm working with these administrators. But if you don't have a lot of autonomy, and you just have to take it, and you have that stress coming down from one side, and then you have these people who are supposed to be support staff coming at you from another side, I can imagine just compounds, the stress, and we all get defensive if we think we're doing things wrong.

Conchita

100%. And I feel like, the big things we were saying in education is like, "Oh, Once COVID is over, everything's gonna be better. Okay, after this year, it's going to be better after this year." And I think what we have to really delve into and recognizes that we are in a different world, and we're never going back to where we were pre-COVID, that that world no longer exists and we have to stop hoping that we're going to get there next month, next year, next week, and recognize that there is a lot of things that are happening with our school systems, like our students are horribly back behind in math across the country right there. They've lost skill. So there's a lot of pressure on teachers and administrators on everybody to do certain things that haven't been marked, you know, modified or, or handled for, like the situation that we're living in, or they have been, and there's like, things are changing. And people have a really hard time with change. And so I feel like, part of our role is to be those bridge makers, and not taking things personally, like when an administrator is super rude to us being like, "It has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with the work that I'm doing and how I'm doing things. It's rather a pressure that these people have." And so how can I build that bridge to support and find that understanding and do it with the administrators as well as with the teachers. Teachers are very overwhelmed. You know, they have a lot going on. And so how can I be that bridge to be like, I don't understand, because I'm not in your position. However, I recognize this, and how can I be a support to you without internalizing and, and I think a lot of conflicts are due to taking things personally, I really do on all levels, when it has nothing to do with you particularly and being able to put that aside and be like, I'm here to build bridges, because that's best for my students, when I burn a bridge. Ultimately, it's my students who are going to be impacted.

Conchita’s METAS (Mentoring, Engaging in Teaching All Students)

Kassy

And it really is. I also don't think that we're going back to pre-COVID, what I do think is happening is people have woken up to the fact that the system that we're still relying on to support us, the educational system, was not built to support the lives that we live right now, it was built to support factory workers, and it was built by the owners of the factories. So like, of course, it's not working, it's not supposed to be working anymore. I don't want to be a factory worker. And if my students want to be factory workers, that's totally fine for them. But that's not where I'm like, "That's the pinnacle of everything." There are so many more avenues for our learners, and we're catching up. And of course, it's, it's going to feel like we're ripping the band aid off. Because we are and we are in this super transformative place in education, where people who are thinking outside of the box are a little bit villainized. But we're really making things move forward. And one thing that I learned about you, Ma'am, is that you started your own nonprofit, working with students. Can you share a little bit more about that and what your work entails?

Conchita

Yes, absolutely. I just want to comment on the very last thing you said. So I believe we're in a huge transformative moment. And I, I can't think of his name right now I'm seeing his face. He's from the Arizona or New Mexico Blind Children's Foundation and he said a quote, that he said, "We're in the Renaissance movement of the blindness field." And I just feel that like in in technology, and education, and we can either be a part of that change and kind of support that, or we can stay in old ways and be really hesitant to change. And I've seen I've seen the gamut of the people and where they're falling. And so I feel like like that's just at the center of where we need to kind of shift our thinking and learn to embrace change and embrace like we've needed to change for years. And it's now more painful, because it's taken us forever to realize that. So I just wanted to comment a little bit about that.

Yes, so I started a nonprofit. It's called METAS. It stands for Mentoring, Engaging in Teaching All Students. And it started off as let's go to Mexico and work with a school for the blind. And so a group of us got together, we're all blind are all people of color. And we decided, let's go and we're all professionals in the field as well. We're not just like random, blind people doing teaching and so, we ended up doing the end. And I realized, like, if we're going to do this, it's going to be well done. Like we're going to do a curriculum, we're going to figure out how to do stuff. And we just realized kind of the need that existed. And one of the things we realize also is, in the United States, there is no blindness training for adults in Spanish. And also, what a lot of people don't know is, if you're undocumented, you're not eligible for blindness training period, because it's state run, and it's state funded. And so there's a huge group of people that either just don't have access to it period, or they just don't have access to it in their language. And so we started, one of our programs is called "Cambiando Vidas", where we do blindness training fully in Spanish, by blind Spanish speaking adults who are professionals in the field. And it's been super, super empowering.

We started it in McAllen, Texas. And the thing that people don't realize about a lot of border towns, is that McAllen is completely surrounded by border patrol. So if you're undocumented, you can't leave the city, let alone leave the country. So what's been really empowering about it is, first of all, that the instructors themselves are professionals in the field and blind and Spanish speakers. But then also the people who started off as students are now kind of pipelining into like supporting and being instructors, which has been super, super wonderful. And then another part of that is during COVID, we started doing webinars in Spanish, on blindness topics of all different types. And what we realized is that, everywhere in Latin America, people were craving this information, it just doesn't really exist. And so we have over 1000 families and contacts in Latin America, that we're in contact with, that we share resources with, that we are able to kind of connect with. And and it's been super, super kind of COVID led to kind of this webinar focus that then led to them being able to access information and collaborate in ways that we weren't before.

Kassy

Oh, my gosh, I cannot believe I have not heard about you guys. Yeah. Okay, so many more questions. And I promise we'll get to the topic of your presentation. As soon as I get off all of these questions. The first being, wow, just starting something like that. Having that vision and seeing that come to life. How did that feel?

Conchita

We didn't know what it was gonna turn into is the reality. Like it started off because my friend was like, "Hey, Conchita, I'm getting invited by the school for the blind to go help them out. Let's go hang out with blind kids." And I was like, "No, if I'm going, we're making a curriculum, we're not just going to hang out with blind kids." And so it turned into like us doing this. And we actually won the Holman Award. So Holman Award is an award given out to blind people all over the world, and three people are chosen, and on a project. So we hosted a conference in Mexico, where we provided for it was it was for professionals and parents. So we provided free attendance, free breakfast and lunch, free childcare. It was super, super amazing. We had people show up, and just share and collaborate and do all this wonderful stuff. But the reality is we didn't envision that end result, we started with envisioning how do we work with a school for the blind and then realize like, there's a huge need both internationally and in the United States that is just not getting filled. And so we kind of went where the need was, but we could have never imagined what it is now.

The importance of identity and skills

Kassy

That is so cool. Sometimes, I think if you do envision what it is, and then work towards it, it can be a little overwhelming. But just taking one step at a time really gets you so much further, like when you cross a river and then you can look back at the stones that you stepped on to get across the river. You're like, oh, that led to this that led to that does that. So you mentioned that your students are going through the pipeline, they're also becoming instructors? Are you able to share either on record or off record how that works for you? Because I can imagine that that's so important and empowering.

Conchita

Yeah, absolutely. So the program we do specifically for training, we normally do it for like 16 unless the parent is with them, but it's mainly for like 18 and above. So they're all adults. And part of it is I think just I always talk about identity. I think identity is so so so important. And so there's a ton of research around how like specifically ethnic identity and cultural identity when you're when you have a strong foundation in that, how it makes you better in so many ways. Like it makes students better academically, it makes people able to advocate for themselves. And we have minimal research on that summon disability, but I but I believe it to my core that it's the same for for disability.

And so I feel like when you create a sense of identity coupled with skills, that's where the power lies, like I've seen it done where like you teach skills without the identity, that's okay, you teach the identity without the skills, that's okay. But when you combine both together, it just becomes so empowering. And so I feel like in our field, as TVIs one of the things we should do is connect our blind students to those role models. Because as sighted TVIs you just cannot have, you can't create that sense of identity that somebody can who is blind or low vision. And so it's, it's that it's coupling, like the instructors are living their lives, the instructors have kids, and they're blind, the instructors, you know, have jobs and are blind. And so I feel like that is what transforms the individual going through the training, or they're like, "Oh, if this person can do it, and mentoring, as well." So all of the instructors are specific mentors to specific participants, so they can check in with them and make sure kind of everything's going. So once they learn the skills, I always say the skills are the easy part, you can teach somebody how to use a measuring cup, you can teach somebody how to, you know, label their stuff, that's the easy part, the hard part is transforming their mentality about internalized ableism. And about that it's okay to be blind, and that you can live a fulfilling life, that is the much difficult task. And so when that becomes a part of it, then it's it's again, this feeling of getting people excited, they become excited about the work and about wanting to give back and do that to others.

And so I'm really big on like, our O&M has to be a certified O&M I don't, I don't, I'm not like yeah, let's just anybody teach it. So the O&M is like, definitely a certified or whatever. But like daily living stuff like that, like it shouldn't be the person blind living it doing it. And so then they're like, "Oh, my gosh, I'll teach, you know, I know how to make this recipe" and make it culturally relevant to like training centers. When I went through training, I was I was in Nebraska, and had a great experience. But it was a lot of like, learning casseroles, which are not something I ever did anyway. And so we make like, we start off with something simple, like a quesadilla, which all of our participants are more familiar with or different type of meals that are simple, but are culturally relevant, like they're not going to make a sandwich, it's just not something we're going to do, they're not going to make a casserole, it's just not something we do. But really getting them to feel empowered, I think is the most most important parts, the skills are easier to teach.

Kassy

You have just so inspired me. I, I, Wow, I like the hair on my arm it's standing up. What you're doing for all of these people is incredible. But also on the back end how you created a curriculum and how you've thought about all these aspects, because you're so right. I was sitting there as you were talking about identity. And like in my personal life, I come into conflict with my friends quite a bit or like my own peer group, because I won't take on certain identities, because I know how important it is. I ate paleo, straight paleo for a decade. Most people would have said, "I am paleo at that point." And I never would do that. I will say I am a teacher, I am a mother because those are part of my identity. But every other identity inducing piece that society wants to put on us, I tend to challenge because I know how hard it is to grow out of that if you put a limiting identity on yourself, even if that limiting identity is the next step. So the fact that you're, you're having them shed that identity piece and step into a new version has got to it's probably like the proto principle, you know, it's 20% of probably the curriculum, but 80% of what's actually making the difference for them.

Conchita

Absolutely. And I feel like the reason I was able to kind of understand the mindset shift like that I went to the NFB about blindness, and how positive is is because of my ethnic identity. So like, this is the way I explained to people it was like, I know that being Mexican and and all of that that entails is not a negative thing. However, there's a lot of media, there's a lot of outside messaging that tells you otherwise. And so you have to have a really strong sense of yourself to be like, I'm not the problem. It's the misconceptions in the media and everything else. And so really shifting that to blindness to be like, there's so many negative stereotypes and ideas and ableism about blindness, and I am not the problem. It's all of these things and misconceptions and how do we get people to kind of understand that and be able to Be like, yeah, there's things that sounds like you have to constantly be educating the public and constantly people tell you ridiculous things. And you have to learn how to go to therapy and deal with some of that. But you have to understand that it's not you that it's, you're, you're fine, and you're not broken. It's kind of those misconceptions and stuff that are that that exist.

Conchita at TVI Online Symposium

Kassy

Yeah, I can totally see that. Staying on kind of the same topic but switching gears a little bit to your presentation that you're going to be talking about the TVI online symposium, which I am just so thrilled about. You mentioned that 10% of our public school students in the United States are English learners. For a group of people, us TVIs, who 100% of our focus is on the lower incidence. You know, it can be really like, "Oh, 10%, that's not 90%" and easy to overlook. But we are the people who have our head down in the microscope saying, "Okay, what about this 10%?" Can you share a little bit more about what you're going to be talking about at the symposium?

Conchita

Yeah, absolutely. And I want to caveat that 10% by saying, the data has grown absolutely and knit and that's an average of nationwide. So some states are way, way, way higher and some states are about that. And we've seen a huge, like in Maryland, I believe the data was we had like 136% increase. So like, it's really, really big. And I think this is a topic that TVIs struggle with because inherently students who are multilingual learners, English learners, they receive ESL services, or English language learners services. And the teacher has no idea what to do, because she's like, everything I do for the students is visual, it's picture based. It's we learn through pictures, and we learn through looking at things. So for these kids that are coming in, that are blind, low vision, we have no idea what to do, what should we do. And then the TVI is like, I don't know what to do, either, because I know how to work with wine lovers, but I don't know what to do with a student that doesn't speak English, or that is learning English. So how do we couple of what that looks like.

And there's research on this topic, but it's minimal. So I did my dissertation on this topic. And so a lot of the research that exist is abroad, because everybody teaches English as a second language everywhere else in the world, so they're trying to figure out how to do it. And kind of, I think before we get into strategies of like, this is how to do it, you have to have some basic understandings of foundational of who these students are and what it looks like. In the 80s, we used to believe very incorrectly, that like the best way to educate English learners, and new arrivals was assimilation, like you'd throw them in a classroom, and they'll sink or swim, and they'll figure it out and they're just so smart that they're going to pick up the language. And what data has shown us is that yeah, they do really well, the first couple of years and then they have the highest dropout rates, they have the the lowest scores in testing and different things like that, because they're acquiring the language, without some of the foundational information and without really concept development. So they do really well in being able to speak and acquire and then they kind of plateau, and they don't get to higher level, understanding and, and reasoning.

And a big part of the student success is parent engagement, that it's huge. Somehow, we want to separate students from their families and we think that's going to give us positive results. And it never will. And so, the more we can understand kind of how to have family engagement, there's a ton of research on family engagement and how vital it is for students to do well academically and succeed. And there's some things that exist within the communities that we're not here to change we have to accommodate for so one of the things that I'm going to be touching on my presentation is like, you have to set a time and know that it's going to start 45 minutes after the fact. You can get upset that people are late, or you can accommodate. And you can you can be like oh my gosh, I shouldn't be like this. Okay, like you have to recognize that there's a lot going on. One thing I always talk about, as well as there is no such thing as migration without trauma. Regardless of what that migration looks like, if it was really easy, like my migration service was not I didn't, you know, squirrel across a river or anything, but it's still traumatic. And so a lot of the things that we see in people that are dealing with trauma are seeing in our communities, and so how do we accommodate for that?

Kassy

Yeah, and the sub cultural aspects of it as well and being heart centered people. The thing that I'm really looking forward to is raising awareness of this issue, and reminding our people that there are, you know, some small things that that we can do, like, you know, setting the invitation for 45 minutes early. I would do you know, back home with my friends, and some small, simple things like that, but we're all heart centered people and really here for our learners, and getting to hear all of this from you specifically is going to be so impactful, Conchita. I'm just I cannot tell you how grateful I am that you are taking the time for this. Also your dissertation like how did you put this in?

Conchita

I somehow somehow I just defended my dissertation in May. And so yes, I've looked at all the research on English learners that exists in blind students. And so I mean, we need more but yeah, it's kind of fresh in my brain.

Kassy

I'm sure now. Are you officially doctor?

Conchita

Yes. Yes, I am.

Kassy

Congratulations!

Conchita

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Kassy

So you are the self appointed person to do the research that we need?

Conchita

Yeah, pretty much that's gonna end up happening. Yeah.

Kassy

I mean, there's nobody else. Yeah, it's you. You just bought yourself a new job.

Conchita

Yeah, pretty much.

An advice for the community

Kassy

Very expensive and time consuming. Way to walk into that one, but very needed. Okay, well, let's round out this interview. I have just had an absolute blast. At the end of every episode, I like to ask our, I wanted to say contestants, this is not a game show. Sometimes I'm horrible at interviewing. Also participants is coming up guests is what I should say. If you could give our community one simple piece of advice to help them take a step forward in assimilating their learners with multilingual families. Can you share just one piece of advice?

Conchita

Yeah, I would say collaborate with the English learner teacher. They're like called the ESL teachers. So learn to collaborate with that provider. And don't hand off the student as this isn't my issue, this isn't my issue, but rather, we both don't know what we're doing. And that's okay. And we're both going to work together to figure out what's best for the student. And so I think collaboration is at the heart of moving all of our students forward.

Kassy

Oh, so beautifully said, can you tell us where we can find more information about METAS? And yourself?

Conchita

Yeah, so our website, it's like a volunteer organization. So our website needs to be majorly updated. I'm gonna say that as a caveat. We have a website, that's METAS international.org. And I'll share it with you as well. And about me, you can just google me and you'll find all the random, like interviews and podcasts that I've done. And if you you can follow me on Twitter as Conchita HDZ. So I kind of do random stuff on there. Or you can find me on social media, I'm very open. And if people want to add me on Facebook or whatever, feel free to find me. And I'm on Facebook as Conchita Hernandez and then Legorreta, which is my second last name. So people can can find me or can email me and I am happy to connect with folks.

Kassy

Amazing, we will put all that information in the show notes as a as for emails, if you guys do feel like you need to email Conchita reach out to us at the team at Allied independence online.com and we'll reach out to her for permission. Just as a caveat, this podcast will be out for years and years and years so if somebody finds you in 10 years, I want to just make sure that it's still okay with you. Thank you so much for coming on this podcast and raising our awareness as to the issues that we still have in front of us and helping us to create that bridge to get over them. I really appreciate it.

Conchita

Absolutely. And I love being on your podcast. I think what you're doing is fantastic. And we need for thinking people willing to think outside of the box and in order to move our field forward. So I'm very grateful for you for for doing that in our fields.

Kassy

Oh, it's my pleasure. It's my job to have everybody watch me fail and then I'll just keep going. It gives everybody else permission to fail too.